[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Yes. They were serious politicians. But the point is I had no doubt that Tebbit, Heseltine etc were genuinely waking up in the morning and trying to make the country better.

This lot. They are getting up in the morning, trying to save their own political backsides or enrich themselves. That much is obvious.

 

[A1X]

They will have to drain the swamp of all the headbangers while in opposition and go back to basics

Ah, that lesser seen John Major / Donald Trump double act

Interestingly only three years between them in age…

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I'm not sure if they will have to drain the swamp, or whether the swamp will be drained for them.

On current polling half the cabinet will be wiped out.

I'm a believer that the future direction of the tory party very much depends on who is going to be left.

 

[TomandJerry]

I'm not sure if they will have to drain the swamp, or whether the swamp will be drained for them.

On current polling half the cabinet will be wiped out.

I'm a believer that the future direction of the tory party very much depends on who is going to be left.

Indeed. I wonder if they might tempt Farage into trying to come on board...

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Indeed. I wonder if they might tempt Farage into trying to come on board...

It's only that he's not in the commons which has stopped him from stepping in and taking the party.

I bet there are some Tories who are (or have been) considering, ditching Sunak, getting a stooge caretaker, putting Farage in the Lords, electing him leader of the party, going to the country.

With Reform out of the picture, that would save them a lot of seats and a lot of tory MP's their jobs. But it would take a lot of organising and that's not their strong point thankfully

 

[A1X]

Is Farage still that popular though? I mean sure, with a small headbanger fringe he is, but in general? It feels like he's nowhere near his 2014-2017 peak, and hitching himself so closely to Trump won't have helped him.

I wonder how much of his notoriety now is people saying "he's really popular" rather than him actually being popular.

 

[nicko31]

Is Farage still that popular though? I mean sure, with a small headbanger fringe he is, but in general? It feels like he's nowhere near his 2014-2017 peak, and hitching himself so closely to Trump won't have helped him.

I wonder how much of his notoriety now is people saying "he's really popular" rather than him actually being popular.

Farage doesn't believe in Trump, just hoping that there's something in it for him in the campaign and something else should he win.

 

[keaton]

Farage is definitely the most popular politician to have lost on all five of his bids to become an MP.

 

[vegster]

Indeed. I wonder if they might tempt Farage into trying to come on board...

Farage has to be an elected MP to become leader according to Tory party rules. So, he'd have to stand, get elected ( something he has never achieved despite standing in 7 by elections ) and then win a Tory Leadership contest. Would he settle for being a mid ranking Minister in opposition ? I doubt it, no money for him in that.

 

[Zeus]

The Tories may very well struggle to ever win an election again after this period. I just don’t see how the grown ups ever get control of the party from here. However the issue is that there are plenty of career politicians that will be replacing them in Labours ranks that don’t really have principles and happy to flip flop wherever their bread is buttered. The system is fundamentally broken to pieces.

I have just spent 18 months working very closely with government departments and the reality of how this country is run is terrifying. SPADS with very little experience other than a PR gig they once had are pulling all the strings and long termism is fantasy. It’s exactly the same on the Labour side of the coin.

 

[vegster]

Farage is definitely the most popular politician to have lost on all five of his bids to become an MP.

7 ! I thought it was 5-6 but got corrected on Twitter, its 7 failures...he only got elected as a MEP due to the EU 's Proportional Representation system.. then he failed to turn up for the Fisheries Committee he was elected to some 27 times while trousering every expense and allowance he could. In fact he overcharged and had to pay back several thousand pounds.. That's your " Man of the People" Nige.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Farage is definitely the most popular politician to have lost on all five of his bids to become an MP.

But to be fair, he was only beaten into third pace by a man dressed in a dolphin suit the once

Besides there's no way the British Electorate would be naive enough to fall for his bullshi ................ Oh

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

7 ! I thought it was 5-6 but got corrected on Twitter, its 7 failures...he only got elected as a MEP due to the EU 's Proportional Representation system.. then he failed to turn up for the Fisheries Committee he was elected to some 27 times while trousering every expense and allowance he could. In fact he overcharged and had to pay back several thousand pounds.. That's your " Man of the People" Nige.

Well, a certain type of person......

 

[Papa Lazarou]

To make it a proper tory slogan it should be:

NO SOUTH AFRICAN'S

NO BLACK SOUTH AFRICAN'S

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But to be fair, he was only beaten into third pace by a man dressed in a dolphin suit the once

Besides there's no way the British Electorate would be naive enough to fall for his bullshi ................ Oh

Switch to PR and he'll be there, in parliament, smirking.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Tories may very well struggle to ever win an election again after this period. I just don’t see how the grown ups ever get control of the party from here. However the issue is that there are plenty of career politicians that will be replacing them in Labours ranks that don’t really have principles and happy to flip flop wherever their bread is buttered. The system is fundamentally broken to pieces.

I have just spent 18 months working very closely with government departments and the reality of how this country is run is terrifying. SPADS with very little experience other than a PR gig they once had are pulling all the strings and long termism is fantasy. It’s exactly the same on the Labour side of the coin.

I don't doubt your insight but if you are working closely with government departments, how do you know that it is exactly the same on the labour side of the coin? They haven't been the government for 13 years.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is Farage still that popular though? I mean sure, with a small headbanger fringe he is, but in general? It feels like he's nowhere near his 2014-2017 peak, and hitching himself so closely to Trump won't have helped him.

I wonder how much of his notoriety now is people saying "he's really popular" rather than him actually being popular.

Maybe people simply don't understand the difference between popular and populist.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Switch to PR and he'll be there, in parliament, smirking.

If we had PR, he may well be sitting in parliament with a few UKIP'ers, together with Johnson, Braverman, Sunak and co with their ERG party, Corbyn leading his true socialist party and a few other waifs and strays, all smirking away completely powerless.

We also would have had a Government made up of Starmer and some of his front bench, Rory Stewart and some one nation conservatives and a few Libdems. We also would not have suffered the last 5 years of total f***wittery.

Thank god for FPTP

 

[Bob!]

If we had PR, he may well be sitting in parliament with a few UKIP'ers, together with Johnson, Braverman, Sunak and co with their ERG party, Corbyn leading his true socialist party and a few other waifs and strays, all smirking away completely powerless.

We also would have had a Government made up of Starmer and some of his front bench, Rory Stewart and some one nation conservatives and a few Libdems. We also would not have suffered the last 5 years of total f***wittery.

Thank god for FPTP

Johnson would have followed the way the wind was blowing, and become one of those one nation conservatives though.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Tories may very well struggle to ever win an election again after this period. I just don’t see how the grown ups ever get control of the party from here. However the issue is that there are plenty of career politicians that will be replacing them in Labours ranks that don’t really have principles and happy to flip flop wherever their bread is buttered. The system is fundamentally broken to pieces.

I have just spent 18 months working very closely with government departments and the reality of how this country is run is terrifying. SPADS with very little experience other than a PR gig they once had are pulling all the strings and long termism is fantasy. It’s exactly the same on the Labour side of the coin.

And I can tell you from personal (if somewhat out of date) experience and second hand from people who are still working in that environment and have done for years that prior to this Government that wasn't the case.

From people who worked under a number of different Governments, by far the biggest change in the way Governments operate in this area came with the switch from May to Johnson

And Labour in government are exactly the same ? When in the last 18 months was this