[Travel] RMT v Shapps.

[GT49er]

I suspect it may have something to do with the fact there has been massive housebuilding round here over the last 3 years.

With about 50% of garages instantly converted into work-from-home offices, I'll bet. And just park th 4X4s on the verges and the pavements because no space has been allowed for households owning one or more cars ........ or are new-build estates in Faversham different to the rest of the country?

 

[faoileán]

My travel experiences might be different to others but as someone who fairly regularly travels by train from the North East to London, passenger numbers don’t seem to have returned to anything like pre-pandemic levels on that route. It is a tough situation, but in order to fund pay rises etc then it is a case I suppose of either raising fares (which are already well over-priced, IMO) or government pumping more money into the industry.

Brighton - London line is as busy as pre-Covid. Thameslink trains are often standing room only (though admittedly this can sometimes be due to short formations and cancellations)

 

[GT49er]

Not sure what figures you saw but revenue and passenger numbers are way way down vs pre lockdown numbers. Like just over half.

I personally knew 3 people who used to travel every day into London by train. One found a job locally where he can work from home.
My next door neighbor used to go up every day, he now goes in 1x a fortnight.

My sister in law travelled to London every day. Now it's 1x a week.

No idea if that's typical.

The trains are now getting back to about as full as they were pre-Covid. That's because there are fewer trains (round here anyway).

 

[The Clamp]

Mark Spencer MP on Any Question tonight, desperately stoking the argument that the taxpayer bailed out the Rail industry and this is how they repay them.

Although, ALL rail companies need a huge kick up the arse. They are failing this country and change is desperately needed.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Passenger numbers had recovered to around 85% - 90% of immediate pre-Covid levels from the last figures I saw.

The number of people travelling by rail before the pandemic was the highest since the 1920s. They had been climbing steadily for 25 odd years. So even 85%-90% of the pre-Covid passenger total would equate to an annual ridership comfortably in the top ten of the last 100 years. It's somewhat misleading and unfair to compare current ridership to the last pre-covid year of passenger numbers.

Cutting services is a very short sighted thing to do as it doesn't really save much money at all and chokes off any bounce back in demand.

Rolling stock is still leased. Stations are still manned. The same number of signallers are needed. Track maintenance still needs to happen. And in the short term drivers / guards are still employed. All you are really saving is some overtime and track access charges (which go to Network Rail anyway thus this increases the subsidy required to keep them going). It's questionable if this saves any money even in the short term if people can't travel at times convenient to them and then choose not to travel by rail. Long term it could put people off rail for a long time.

There has been disproportionate drop in income because of fewer season tickets being sold, but rather than slashing services maybe they should try coming up with ticket products that are more attractive for people who still want to travel at peak times, but only go into the office one or two days a week.

Leisure travel is pretty much back to pre-covid levels everywhere and is exceeding it in some places. What is the justification for having a much reduced timetable at weekends? If it was viable before why isn't it viable now with the same number of passengers?

Easy to blame the TOCs but in reality it is the DfT calling the shots on timetables. They are happy for TOCs and unions to take the blame of course.

This. If I travel up at peak times the cheapest ticket is a single, plus a super off peak return with my senior rail card. What a load of old bollocks. My line is run by zombies. The only time they check tickets on the train is in morning rush hour, or public rinse hour as it should be called. Meanwhile the gobshites all pile into first class in the evening 'rush hour', shouting into their phones while eating stinking fast food, knowing their ticket won't be checked.

And the trains still run with no working toilet. Or 'accessible' toilet as they call it. I guess this means that if you are supple enough to shit out of a window, you have a slightly suboptimal, but nevertheless accessible, toilet for use, which is probably compliant with some sort of mealy mouthed Shapps edict. He probably nicked it off the EU (special toilet arrangements for the Greeks and French, article 666 of the treaty).

 

[GT49er]

Passenger numbers had recovered to around 85% - 90% of immediate pre-Covid levels from the last figures I saw.

The number of people travelling by rail before the pandemic was the highest since the 1920s. They had been climbing steadily for 25 odd years. So even 85%-90% of the pre-Covid passenger total would equate to an annual ridership comfortably in the top ten of the last 100 years. It's somewhat misleading and unfair to compare current ridership to the last pre-covid year of passenger numbers.

Cutting services is a very short sighted thing to do as it doesn't really save much money at all and chokes off any bounce back in demand.

Rolling stock is still leased. Stations are still manned. The same number of signallers are needed. Track maintenance still needs to happen. And in the short term drivers / guards are still employed. All you are really saving is some overtime and track access charges (which go to Network Rail anyway thus this increases the subsidy required to keep them going). It's questionable if this saves any money even in the short term if people can't travel at times convenient to them and then choose not to travel by rail. Long term it could put people off rail for a long time.

There has been disproportionate drop in income because of fewer season tickets being sold, but rather than slashing services maybe they should try coming up with ticket products that are more attractive for people who still want to travel at peak times, but only go into the office one or two days a week.

Leisure travel is pretty much back to pre-covid levels everywhere and is exceeding it in some places. What is the justification for having a much reduced timetable at weekends? If it was viable before why isn't it viable now with the same number of passengers?

Easy to blame the TOCs but in reality it is the DfT calling the shots on timetables. They are happy for TOCs and unions to take the blame of course.

You really believe stations are still manned? All day? You've got to be kidding (or living in London or parts of the South East).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Because he's useless, Govt has nothing better to offer than slagging off the unions. Same as when Failing was Transport Sec

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Schapps was interviewed by Charlie Stayt, showing he didn’t even know what a direct service was, or the difference from an express train. As dense as Nadine Dorries.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

With about 50% of garages instantly converted into work-from-home offices, I'll bet. And just park th 4X4s on the verges and the pavements because no space has been allowed for households owning one or more cars ........ or are new-build estates in Faversham different to the rest of the country?

Two garages, most of them. Very little garden, though. The new houses are all going to London escapees. The estates are quite nice, but there is no public transport to speak of so folk drive to the station and pay to park there. Very little street parking for non residents. One new Aldi, no upgrade to the roads, massive delays where the A2 meets the Ashford road (link to M2) and Brenley Corner (where there roads to Canterbury, Whitstable and Faversham meet to join the M2 (routine coning and three police people manning the roundabout). It is becoming a mess down here due to incontinent planning. And with the size of Faversham set to more than double in the next 15 years, my desire to live forever is rapidly evaporating.

The hallmark of all this is hubris, fast bucks, panic and bullshit. The four horsemen of the Thatcher apocalypse

 

[GT49er]

Two garages, most of them. Very little garden, though. The new houses are all going to London escapees. The estates are quite nice, but there is no public transport to speak of so folk drive to the station and pay to park there. Very little street parking for non residents. One new Aldi, no upgrade to the roads, massive delays where the A2 meets the Ashford road (link to M2) and Brenley Corner (where there roads to Canterbury, Whitstable and Faversham meet to join the M2 (routine coning and three police people manning the roundabout). It is becoming a mess down here due to incontinent planning. And with the size of Faversham set to more than double in the next 15 years, my desire to live forever is rapidly evaporating.

The hallmark of all this is hubris, fast bucks, panic and bullshit. The four horsemen of the Thatcher apocalypse

Double garages? And a shop? Some people don't know how lucky they are! You must have exceptional developers down there who actually acknowledge there is such a word as 'amenities'!

I'd still bet my house on at least one of those garages becoming an extra room as soon as they move in, and the 4X4 (or one of them) on the patch of ground at the front of the house; 2 wheels on the pavement..

 

[pure_white]

If anyone can sort the lazy strikers out Shapps can. He needs to get much tougher though. Still proud to have voted Conservative.

 

[crookie]

Schapps was interviewed by Charlie Stayt, showing he didn’t even know what a direct service was, or the difference from an express train. As dense as Nadine Dorries.

Lack of intellect is no barrier to rising to the top of politics in this country anymore sadly.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Double garages? And a shop? Some people don't know how lucky they are! You must have exceptional developers down there who actually acknowledge there is such a word as 'amenities'!

I'd still bet my house on at least one of those garages becoming an extra room as soon as they move in, and the 4X4 (or one of them) on the patch of ground at the front of the house; 2 wheels on the pavement..

Faversham may have its faults, but the people here are nice and decent (apart from the drug dealers in Davington, and by and large they know their place).

Seriously, it may be under attack, but this town is still rather nice.

And the weather is sensational.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Lack of intellect is no barrier to rising to the top of politics in this country anymore sadly.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Johnson handpicked his ministers to make himself look intelligent.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Lack of intellect is no barrier to rising to the top of politics in this country anymore sadly.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

All you need to succeed in this tory shitshow is an ability to expect the Spanish Inquisition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj8n4MfhjUc

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If anyone can sort the lazy strikers out Shapps can. He needs to get much tougher though. Still proud to have voted Conservative.

Oh dear. Yesterday I thought that perhaps you were just a little bit uncertain over the use of the English language. Now I find that, alas, you are a twerp.

We live and learn.

 

[GT49er]

Faversham may have its faults, but the people here are nice and decent (apart from the drug dealers in Davington, and by and large they know their place).

Seriously, it may be under attack, but this town is still rather nice.

And the weather is sensational.

Pah! I should have had the bloody place cut off from the National Grid and all the roads in and out dug up when I was working for the Electricity Board in Maidstone (although thinking about it it would have been better if I'd done that to Maidstone)!

 

[Uter]

You really believe stations are still manned? All day? You've got to be kidding (or living in London or parts of the South East).

What an odd comment.

 

[Uter]

Not sure what figures you saw but revenue and passenger numbers are way way down vs pre lockdown numbers. Like just over half.

I personally knew 3 people who used to travel every day into London by train. One found a job locally where he can work from home.
My next door neighbor used to go up every day, he now goes in 1x a fortnight.

My sister in law travelled to London every day. Now it's 1x a week.

No idea if that's typical.



https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/

Yes, I am aware of this data, but it covers periods when the country was still under lockdown so it's a little behind in reflecting current demand and trends. This is the data I saw:

Continuous line is a 28 day moving average of car use. Thick dashed line is a moving average of rail use and looks to be about 86%. Thin dashed line is underground.

 

[jackalbion]

Passenger numbers had recovered to around 85% - 90% of immediate pre-Covid levels from the last figures I saw.

The number of people travelling by rail before the pandemic was the highest since the 1920s. They had been climbing steadily for 25 odd years. So even 85%-90% of the pre-Covid passenger total would equate to an annual ridership comfortably in the top ten of the last 100 years. It's somewhat misleading and unfair to compare current ridership to the last pre-covid year of passenger numbers.

Cutting services is a very short sighted thing to do as it doesn't really save much money at all and chokes off any bounce back in demand.

Rolling stock is still leased. Stations are still manned. The same number of signallers are needed. Track maintenance still needs to happen. And in the short term drivers / guards are still employed. All you are really saving is some overtime and track access charges (which go to Network Rail anyway thus this increases the subsidy required to keep them going). It's questionable if this saves any money even in the short term if people can't travel at times convenient to them and then choose not to travel by rail. Long term it could put people off rail for a long time.

There has been disproportionate drop in income because of fewer season tickets being sold, but rather than slashing services maybe they should try coming up with ticket products that are more attractive for people who still want to travel at peak times, but only go into the office one or two days a week.

Leisure travel is pretty much back to pre-covid levels everywhere and is exceeding it in some places. What is the justification for having a much reduced timetable at weekends? If it was viable before why isn't it viable now with the same number of passengers?

Easy to blame the TOCs but in reality it is the DfT calling the shots on timetables. They are happy for TOCs and unions to take the blame of course.

Pretty good summary, from someone who works in the rail industry, Shapps is to blame for this and him and the Dft shoulder 90% of the blame. They are a shambles, propped up by some shambles TOCs who are desperate for a payout from them.

 

[Uter]

Pretty good summary, from someone who works in the rail industry, Shapps is to blame for this and him and the Dft shoulder 90% of the blame. They are a shambles, propped up by some shambles TOCs who are desperate for a payout from them.

Thank you.