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[Albion] You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

You're the ref: Veltman v Rice

  • No card to either player

    Votes: 99 17.4%
  • No card for Veltman; yellow card for Rice

    Votes: 255 44.7%
  • Yellow card for Veltman; nothing for Rice

    Votes: 13 2.3%
  • Yellow card for both players

    Votes: 118 20.7%
  • No card for Veltman; red card for Rice

    Votes: 37 6.5%
  • Red card for Veltman; nothing for Rice

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Red card for Veltman; yellow card for Rice

    Votes: 4 0.7%
  • Yellow card for Veltman; red card for Rice

    Votes: 36 6.3%
  • Red card for both players

    Votes: 5 0.9%

  • Total voters
    570
















Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
6,292
Pedro probably should have been booked. A lack of consistency is an issue but it’s not an excuse to trade off with leniency for the other side later in the match. Rice’s kicking the ball away was a letter of the law yellow - it is only really controversial and wound Arteta and the arselickers up so much because Rice was already on a yellow.

Time maybe to bring in blue cards and time out for 2 accumulated yellow cards and separate those infringements from a single more serious red card offence.

A second yellow red card is going to continue to be controversial as long as players are sent off for a second yellow card that might otherwise be a soft or marginal yellow - especially if an apparently similar ‘offence’ by the opposition did not receive a booking earlier in the same match.
 


Arthritic Toe

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2005
2,449
Swindon
Having rewatched it a few times, this is top, top shithousery from Veltmen. Here is my forensic analysis. They were both having a go at each other in the play that lead up to it. Having been awarded the kick, Joel first gazes into the distance, pretending to see an opportunity for a quick kick and a fast break. In fact there are absolutely no yellow shirts ahead, but he knows the refs eyes are firmly on the incident. He taps the ball ahead then goes to play the ‘fake’ long kick to the imaginary yellow shirt with the imaginary break-away opportunity. His real aim is to blast the ball at Rice, to both inflict minor pain as payback for the previous incident, and possibly even to draw a second yellow for delaying the kick. Rice though is closer than he thought and, attempting shithousery of his own, nudges the ball away just as he’s about to kick it. Velman doesn’t see this as his head is up, still focussed on the imaginary yellow shirt ahead, and instead of whacking the ball into Rice, he instead wellies him firmly in the calf. We know the rest. Top drawer shithousery from Joel.
 








Bring back Bryan wade!!

I wanna caravan for me ma
Jun 28, 2010
4,387
Hassocks
‘ I was amazed," said Arteta. "Amazed, amazed, amazed because of how inconsistent decisions can be. In the first half, there are two incidents and nothing happens.

"Then, in a non-critical area, the ball hits Declan [on the back of his leg], he turns around, he doesn't see the player coming and he touches the ball.’

Arteta truly embarrassing himself with the above quote… ‘he doesn’t see the player coming and he touches the ball’??? Rice knew exactly what he was doing it was a calculated flick of the ball away. Everyone could see that.
 


Bring back Bryan wade!!

I wanna caravan for me ma
Jun 28, 2010
4,387
Hassocks
As an Albion supporter it increased our chances of getting something from game so pleased Rice went of. But sorry can hardley call that an attempt to delay a freekick.
Eh? Of course that’s exactly what it was.
 






nickjhs

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 9, 2017
1,493
Ballarat, Australia
As an Albion supporter it increased our chances of getting something from game so pleased Rice went of. But sorry can hardley call that an attempt to delay a freekick.
When you look at the speed the game is played at this level a delay of a few seconds can mean the difference between a defense being caught out or not. So absolutely it was a delaying tactic.
Regarding the whole incident I am not for Rice being sent off, but those are the rules two yellow cards (both deserved) = Red Card. What I am more surprised about is Veltman getting away with what I see as a deliberate kick against Rice, the way I see it he was well aware that the ball had moved and kicked Rice in annoyance, obviously disguised as an attempt to take the free kick. Hopefully he gets a bollocking for it.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,870
Sure Rice kicked the ball away, however, it looked to me that Veltman was aware of this and took full advantage to get in an annoyed kick.
Veltman knew exactly what he was doing.
He saw an opportunity to give the ref a decision to make, by taking a quick free kick (when there was no advantage to do so)

Rice also knew exactly what he was doing by preventing a quick freekick (with absolutely no advantage of doing so).
Stupid (or possibly arrogant) thing to do when you're on a yellow.

Arsenal fans (and a few closet ones are showing themselves on this thread I feel) are annoyed because they know their hero was stupid.

If one of ours had done it, we would be railing against him, not the ref.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,870
I don't see what the referee did wrong. It's only controversial and a talking point as it was against a big 6 team. If it was the other way around or in a game between two non big 6 teams it would not be mentioned or spoken about.
THIS!!

the match of the day comment would just have been "Stupid from the non-Big 6 player. Don't give the ref a decision to make."
 


nickjhs

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 9, 2017
1,493
Ballarat, Australia
Veltman knew exactly what he was doing.
He saw an opportunity to give the ref a decision to make, by taking a quick free kick (when there was no advantage to do so)

Rice also knew exactly what he was doing by preventing a quick freekick (with absolutely no advantage of doing so).
Stupid (or possibly arrogant) thing to do when you're on a yellow.

Arsenal fans (and a few closet ones are showing themselves on this thread I feel) are annoyed because they know their hero was stupid.

If one of ours had done it, we would be railing against him, not the ref.
I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
878
‘ I was amazed," said Arteta. "Amazed, amazed, amazed because of how inconsistent decisions can be. In the first half, there are two incidents and nothing happens.

"Then, in a non-critical area, the ball hits Declan [on the back of his leg], he turns around, he doesn't see the player coming and he touches the ball.’

Arteta truly embarrassing himself with the above quote… ‘he doesn’t see the player coming and he touches the ball’??? Rice knew exactly what he was doing it was a calculated flick of the ball away. Everyone could see that.
Arteta also knows exactly what he is doing: make comments about how controversial and inconsistent the decision was to put pressure on the officials. That way it increases the likelihood that they will get desicaions their way in the future.
Pathetic really.
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
878
I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?
Veltman absolutely intended to. The "amazing" thing, to use Arteta's words, is that the big 6 team didn't get the decision their way and have Veltman sent off. Instead the laws of the game were applied correctly.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,870
I agree Rice deserved the yellow and therefore the Red. But do you believe Veltman had no intention to kick rice?
No I think he had the intention to kick the ball at Rice, but the ball wasn't there.
I doubt he premeditated, that his follow through would mean he could get a way with kicking Rice.
 


sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,999
Which law did he break?

In Black & white?

FWLIW there were far too many marginal greys the whole game, I thought the ref played it well, it was a shithouse game in many respects . . . It may have been better for us, it could have been a whole lot worse.
My understanding was that kicking the ball away in the way he did would be seen as dissent. But they may have updated this.
 


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