Travel to the Stadium - Council Committee Report

[Lord Bracknell]

If anyone is interested, the report to the City Council's Planning Committee on the application to use Brighton Racecourse for Park & Ride is now available on the Council's website at
http://present.brighton-hove.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=10545&T=9

The report includes a lot of information about the Club's draft Travel Management Plan - too much to reproduce here, but worth a read.

The recommendation to the Planning Committee (which meets on 29 June) is to grant planning permission for the Racecourse P&R, subject to a number of conditions.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The recommendation to the Planning Committee (which meets on 29 June) is to grant planning permission for the Racecourse P&R, subject to a number of conditions.

Does everybody get a horse, or is it first, come first served?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The Club's travel survey found that over 6,400 season ticket holders want to use Park & Ride. At 2.6 people per car (the Club's estimate). this points to a demand for almost 2,500 P&R parking spaces. But there will only be 1,570 spaces available (spread over three sites). The survey failed, however, to offer the option of "park near the stadium", so who knows what the real demand for P&R spaces might be?


Extracts from the report:-

In total, 1570 park and ride parking spaces are proposed at Mithras
House (including Cockcroft and Watts car parks), Mill Road, and as part of
this application.

...

As part of this current application, the applicant has estimated that there will
be an average of 2.6 people per car using the parking spaces at the
racecourse. Based on the predicted modal share when the original
application for the Stadium was granted, this would equate to the need for
between 1384 and 1558 car parking spaces to be provided for park and ride
over all of the sites.

The Football Club has carried out a survey of season ticket holders. The
survey asked fans how they expect to travel to the Stadium. This survey
highlights that a greater number of fans expect to travel to the stadium by
park and ride than originally anticipated. The survey results indicate that 29%
(6447) of fans said they would prefer to travel by park and ride.

However, the survey results are being treated with caution for a number of
reasons. Firstly, the questionnaire did not give fans the option of travelling by
car and parking near the stadium (the 2,000 to 2,200 spaces within 1.5km),
and secondly it did not outline the available travel options in any detail. If an
assumption is made that some of the fans who preferred the park and ride
option, would actually park near the stadium when the choice is offered, this
would reduce the figure back down to 14% (3260). This is based on an
average of 2.5 people per car using the parking spaces within 1.5 km. The
1901 members who are corporate club members have access to 725 of the
2,000 – 2,200 parking spaces, however, this would still leave between 1275
and 1475 parking spaces available within 1.5km (based on the number of
parking spaces required by condition).

Notwithstanding the above, the condition requiring 1300 park and ride parking
spaces is a minimum. Based on the projection that on average 2.6 people will
travel per car using the park and ride, even based on the 2001 predicted
modal share, there would be the requirement that between 1384 and 1558 car
parking spaces would be needed, which is over the minimum 1300 required
by condition.

It is recognised that it is difficult to predict exactly how fans will travel to the
Stadium, and that the Club’s survey results must be treated with caution.

However, the total number of parking spaces currently proposed at 1570 for
park and ride, would not be a great deal over the projected levels anticipated
when the original 2001 application was approved. In addition, it was accepted
at the Public Inquiry that the racecourse would form the additional park and
ride site needed. It is therefore considered that there is the need and
justification for the park and ride facilities at the racecourse.

 

[The Large One]

A lot to get through there but the first thing that springs to mind is...

there is NO CHANCE of Albion's first match being moved by the TV companies to Friday August 5th.

 

[Bozza]

So, are they saying something like...

2000 spaces at (or close to) the Amex
1558 (worst case) PnR spaces needed

...so a total of 3558 parking spaces taking 2.6 people each, so 9,250 people will be coming by car to some degree or other..

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Another extract from the report:-

Subsidised travel for season ticket holders is available for the park and ride
buses, using a voucher system which is similar to the system which has been
used for Withdean Stadium. There is not a separate fee for parking. The
voucher covers travel on park and ride.

There is no mention of what will happen if people turn up at the Park & Ride sites without a Travel Voucher. Will they be turned away? Or will Vouchers be on sale at the P&R sites?

 

[Bozza]

Blimey, if anything illustrates how tight the parking is, it is the below. It seems by grabbing spaces from here, there and everywhere we scrape over the minimum required by 4 (four) spaces!


“The Stadium shall not be brought into use unless and until details of
arrangements for car parking for a minimum of 2,000 and a maximum of
2,200 cars at Sussex University and Falmer High School or at alternative
locations within 1.5km of the Stadium have been submitted to and approved
by the Local Planning Authority and the said car parking provided....."

.....

The Club are in the process of securing the car parking spaces. It is
anticipated that 1,100 spaces will be secured at Sussex University, 35 at
Copse Car Park and 100 on the access road to Falmer High School.
Once the old Falmer High School has been demolished, it is anticipated that
parking spaces for the stadium would be provided as part of any
redevelopment of the site. In the meantime, there is a shortfall in the number
of parking spaces required by condition.

Therefore, a planning application for the temporary three year use of land to
the north of the Stadium’s coach and bus park for 650 car parking spaces is
currently under consideration by Lewes District Council. The planning
application is due to be is due to be heard at Lewes District Planning
Committee on the 22nd of June 2011. If this is approved, it would take the
number up to 2,004 spaces when including the 119 spaces which are
available at Park Wall Farm site (the VIP car park)

 

[Giraffe]

And where are the 2,200 "close" to the stadium?

 

[Giraffe]

And where are the 2,200 "close" to the stadium?

Ignore that, your detail beat me to it!

 

[Bry Nylon]

Blimey, if anything illustrates how tight the parking is, it is the below. It seems by grabbing spaces from here, there and everywhere we scrape over the minimum required by 4 (four) spaces!

But if my other half drives, we usually end up taking 2 spaces. Should I tell anyone?

 

[Giraffe]

But if my other half drives, we usually end up taking 2 spaces. Should I tell anyone?

The whole survey appears to be assuming that all drivers are male and will park correctly. Someone tell Liz where she can stick her coaches.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Blimey, if anything illustrates how tight the parking is, it is the below. It seems by grabbing spaces from here, there and everywhere we scrape over the minimum required by 4 (four) spaces!

The report also suggests that available space on the trains might be very tight. The original planning application estimated that 3,150 people (14 per cent of stadium capacity) would travel by train. This figure doesn't appear to have been revised - probably because that's about the capacity of the railway.

If the NSC poll is any guide [and I know that isn't at all scientific or reliable], I'm fairly certain that the Club's travel survey will have shown that significantly more than that number have said that they want to use the railway.

Travelling to games at Falmer

 

[Bozza]

The report also suggests that available space on the trains might be very tight. The original planning application estimated that 3,150 people (14 per cent of stadium capacity) would travel by train. This figure doesn't appear to have been revised - probably because that's about the capacity of the railway.

If the NSC poll is any guide [and I know that isn't at all scientific or reliable] I'm fairly certain that the Club's travel survey will have shown that significantly more than that number have said that they want to use the railway.

So, let's assume all these surveys ARE correct...

9250 by car
3150 by train
3000 by coach (60 coaches * 50 people)

Are the other 7000 or so walking?

 

[perseus]

At a rough guess I would say:

55% car
7% train
8% bus or coach
20% undecided

 

[Lord Bracknell]

At a rough guess I would say:

55% car
7% train
8% bus or coach
20% undecided

The Club's original estimate was:-

Walking/cycling/bus and walk 16%
Rail 14%
Bus services 3-4%
Park and ride 16-18%
Football special coaches (home) 5-6%
Football special coaches (away) 10% [equal to the TOTAL capacity of the away end!!]
Taxi drop off/kiss and ride 3%
Park and walk 29-32%

 

[Miami Seagull]

The report also suggests that available space on the trains might be very tight. The original planning application estimated that 3,150 people (14 per cent of stadium capacity) would travel by train. This figure doesn't appear to have been revised - probably because that's about the capacity of the railway.

If the NSC poll is any guide [and I know that isn't at all scientific or reliable], I'm fairly certain that the Club's travel survey will have shown that significantly more than that number have said that they want to use the railway.

Travelling to games at Falmer

The trains will be a nightmare. Do these figues include the majority of away supporters?

 

[kevo]

The original planning application estimated that 3,150 people (14 per cent of stadium capacity) would travel by train.

Utterly ridiculous, that's got to be a massive underestimate - especially given the stadium is adjacent to a station.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Utterly ridiculous, that's got to be a massive underestimate - especially given the stadium is adjacent to a station.

Possibly an underestimate of the numbers who want to travel by train, but maybe a realistic estimate of the numbers who will fit on the trains.

One consequence of the demand for space on the trains exceeding the supply of space could easily be that there will be no space on the busiest trains running pre-match from London Road or Moulsecoomb stations.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

The trains will be a nightmare. Do these figues include the majority of away supporters?

The club's 2001 figures (ie from the original stadium planning application) have all 2,250 away supporters travelling by coach.

 

[Titanic]

At a rough guess I would say:

55% car
7% train
8% bus or coach
20% undecided

and what about the other 10%? Have they decided but won't tell anyone??