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[Football] To all the Southgate haters / wrong again and again and again **SOUTHGATE NOW RESIGNED**



Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
5,843
He's absolute garbage. I can't believe you still can't see that? We were decent today for the first time in a long time. Not because or his tactical masterstroke but because how good our players our.
Jimmy Melia, arguably the second worst Albion boss after Hypia, took the Albion to their only, to date, FA cup final appearence.

GS has the second best England squad ever, after Mexico 1970, win or lose Sunday over the 8 years in post we've have overall underachieved with the players available to us.
 




Cornwallboy

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
531
I think the evidence does justify favouring Venables. Look at both how he had England playing, and how he did at other clubs. He's one of the forerunners of moderns football.
We won 2 games out of 5 in open play in the Euros under him and for our first one and a half games (Switzerland & Scotland) we were awful. He wasn't the messiah history has sometimes made him out to be.
 


Forster's Armband

Well-known member
Sep 23, 2008
2,553
London
Jimmy Melia, arguably the second worst Albion boss after Hypia, took the Albion to their only, to date, FA cup final appearence.

GS has the second best England squad ever, after Mexico 1970, win or lose Sunday over the 8 years in post we've have overall underachieved with the players available to us.
That is absolute rubbish. The 2002 - 2008 team was better than this one and won nothing, only ever getting to QFs. I also think it's so arrogant to think we should just role other nations over. England was on its knees when he took over and frankly, we are just not the big beast national team we all like to think we are. Only ever won one trophy 58 years ago at home. I hope he stays to the next World Cup because I honestly don't know who does better, and don't say Pep or Klopp etc. International management isn't like club management.
 


BBassic

I changed this.
Jul 28, 2011
12,883
I don't particularly care for Southgate.

Over the years he's been in charge he's made some, shall we say, questionable decisions picking squads and his football is effective but not terribly exciting.

But his record is good. Whether that's because of him or in spite of him will never be answered.

Personally I hope he goes after Sunday, win or lose. Change is good and with the talented youngsters we've got coming in I'd like to see someone else show what they can do.
 






hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,894
Kitbag in Dubai
I hope he stays to the next World Cup because I honestly don't know who does better, and don't say Pep or Klopp etc. International management isn't like club management.
But even with its differences, it's still football management.

Given the choice and their highly unlikely availability, I'd go with Pep or Klopp seeing as you mentioned them.

Without the benefit of 8 years hindsight, would you have gone for the guy who took Middlesbrough down in 19th?

The guy whose team finished bottom of the 2015 U21 Euros group?

The guy who said that he didn't want the job in June 2016? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36669137

"BBC Radio 5 live senior football reporter Ian Dennis said the England job is "not what Gareth Southgate wants at this stage" either on a permanent or interim basis."
 


Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,461
tokyo
How many have we won under him? Wasn't the one against Switzerland the first? And we lost the final in a shootout, so I'm not sure how that's a good record.





He's definitely done quite a lot right.
Columbia in the last 16 of wc2018. We also beatvswitzerland in a pk shoot out in the nation's league but I'm not sure that counts ss a proper tournament. So we've won 2 out of three or 3 out of 4 under him. Bearing in mind we won 1 out 7 before him that's still an impressive record imo. He's ended the hoodoo I reckon. Before that Columbia game I didn't think I'd ever see us win a shoot out again.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,321
Hove
That is absolute rubbish. The 2002 - 2008 team was better than this one and won nothing, only ever getting to QFs. I also think it's so arrogant to think we should just role other nations over. England was on its knees when he took over and frankly, we are just not the big beast national team we all like to think we are. Only ever won one trophy 58 years ago at home. I hope he stays to the next World Cup because I honestly don't know who does better, and don't say Pep or Klopp etc. International management isn't like club management.
Isn't this current period of success a result of a huge review by the FA around that period 2002-2008 where they transformed all the development setup, built St George's Park, and transformed the way coaches, players etc. came through, and a transformation of youth formats at grass roots? This culminated in Dan Ashworth's appointment in 2012. There has been a transformation behind the scenes that's not all down to Gareth.

I think England management should be a bit more like us at little ole Brighton. The manager is actually less important than the structure and principles that underpin everything you do.

I pretty much think England manager should be like a limited presidential term, like a max of 3 or 4 international tournaments. Otherwise managers have their favourites, show too much loyalty to one set of players over others, get stuck in a single way of going about things.
 




One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,733
Worthing
That is absolute rubbish. The 2002 - 2008 team was better than this one and won nothing, only ever getting to QFs. I also think it's so arrogant to think we should just role other nations over. England was on its knees when he took over and frankly, we are just not the big beast national team we all like to think we are. Only ever won one trophy 58 years ago at home. I hope he stays to the next World Cup because I honestly don't know who does better, and don't say Pep or Klopp etc. International management isn't like club management.
2002-2008 was abject failure as well given the players, sure Southgate has done better, but tend to agree with @Lenny Rider we have continually under performed
 


Iggle Piggle

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
5,830
Southgate has done some stuff very well. The togetherness of the squad, creating an environment that the players want to be in.and preparation for pens are all top drawer.

Where he falls down is picking of players out of position (Trent, Walker 3rd centre half, Foden), his in game management is poor and his utterances that we were pony early doors because of no Calvin Phillips are bizarre.

I wouldn't want him at the Albion that's for sure.
 






Forster's Armband

Well-known member
Sep 23, 2008
2,553
London
Isn't this current period of success a result of a huge review by the FA around that period 2002-2008 where they transformed all the development setup, built St George's Park, and transformed the way coaches, players etc. came through, and a transformation of youth formats at grass roots? This culminated in Dan Ashworth's appointment in 2012. There has been a transformation behind the scenes that's not all down to Gareth.

I think England management should be a bit more like us at little ole Brighton. The manager is actually less important than the structure and principles that underpin everything you do.

I pretty much think England manager should be like a limited presidential term, like a max of 3 or 4 international tournaments. Otherwise managers have their favourites, show too much loyalty to one set of players over others, get stuck in a single way of going about things.
That is obviously part of it in terms of developing a production line of players and decent ethos. Southgate has fostered a brilliant atmosphere for them to operate in and of course worked with lots of them at Under 21. I admit he can be limited in terms of tactical ability (although in the last 2 games, he's done really well), but it's not easy regardless of some of the players he has. I don't know who else we get in as a coach. I think it should be an English coach and they are limited. I also think International management is a particular skill. So dropping in say Pep (would never take it) or Klopp (wouldn't take it now) isn't necessarily going to work. That leaves Howe (I can't see he'd leave Newcastle at the moment) or Potter (can he implement a style with limited time to train). I hope he stays a couple more years while we prep a successor.
 


Forster's Armband

Well-known member
Sep 23, 2008
2,553
London
Southgate has done some stuff very well. The togetherness of the squad, creating an environment that the players want to be in.and preparation for pens are all top drawer.

Where he falls down is picking of players out of position (Trent, Walker 3rd centre half, Foden), his in game management is poor and his utterances that we were pony early doors because of no Calvin Phillips are bizarre.

I wouldn't want him at the Albion that's for sure.
Fair enough on Trent but lots of pundits and fans wanted him there. Walker is good at RCB works well I think and the change to 3-4-2-1 has massively helped Foden. I wouldn't want him at the Albion either because he's an international specialist manager not a club one.
 


Iggle Piggle

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
5,830
Fair enough on Trent but lots of pundits and fans wanted him there. Walker is good at RCB works well I think and the change to 3-4-2-1 has massively helped Foden. I wouldn't want him at the Albion either because he's an international specialist manager not a club one.
Where we got lucky on Wednesday was that we were second best aerially to Dutch free kicks and corners. It didn't cost us but It has previously (Mandzukic for Croatia for example). Koeman thought the same with the Weghorst sub and that is the weak part of Walker in that position

That's not an issue on Sunday though. 3 at the back might be we give those Wingers space and time.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
52,286
Goldstone
We won 2 games out of 5 in open play in the Euros under him and for our first one and a half games (Switzerland & Scotland) we were awful. He wasn't the messiah history has sometimes made him out to be.
Awful against Scotland, but beat them 2-0, whereas Southgate's team drew with them? Both times we drew with Switzerland. And that's your evidence for Southgate being better?
 


Uncle C

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2004
11,708
Bishops Stortford
The current crop of England players would have walked this tournament without Gareths interference. Totally unbalanced set up with Trippier on the left wing choosing to pass backwards most of the time.
'Substitutions were inspired' I hear you say but why wait till the 80th minute to make them. It was obviously needed after 30 minutes.
 


Forster's Armband

Well-known member
Sep 23, 2008
2,553
London
The current crop of England players would have walked this tournament without Gareths interference. Totally unbalanced set up with Trippier on the left wing choosing to pass backwards most of the time.
'Substitutions were inspired' I hear you say but why wait till the 80th minute to make them. It was obviously needed after 30 minutes.
There it is the English delusion that makes all the other countries hate us. You don't "walk" and international football tournament whoever you are.
 






Herne Hill Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2003
2,985
Galicia
I have a fundamental problem with the basic premise that anybody pointing out clear shortcomings in team selection, over-cautious tactics and inconsistencies between his messages and his actual decision-making "hates" Gareth Southgate.

It's not acceptable to throw plastic cups at the manager. It absolutely is acceptable to express opinions that he's made errors. I genuinely think a lot of the criticism aimed at him was justified. But I don't hate the man - quite the opposite; I fervently hope he takes us to the trophy. But it seems that in the modern internet age, grown-up disagreement has vanished without a trace and if you happen to express a slightly negative view about somebody, you 'hate' them.
 


Napper

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
24,350
Sussex
The current crop of England players would have walked this tournament without Gareths interference. Totally unbalanced set up with Trippier on the left wing choosing to pass backwards most of the time.
'Substitutions were inspired' I hear you say but why wait till the 80th minute to make them. It was obviously needed after 30 minutes.
just not true is it. It's our media talking it up and spinning it like all other countries have shite players. International football isnt like that. Our players are good but so are others. Look at the French for example

How many of current team would get in the original golden generation team. 1 or 2 maybe .

Quarter finals is the minimum for good sides like us , after that you can play amazing and still get dumped out , you need what we've always lacked - a bit of luck

Southgate is genius at tournament football. The way we time it. Very reminiscent of the good Italian sides.

People just scared of getting hurt so the guards go up , thats all this is.

Trust me though , You need to learn to love again. Most people under Southgate have and it's been monumental
 


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