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[Football] To all the Southgate haters / wrong again and again and again **SOUTHGATE NOW RESIGNED**



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,953
Faversham
Perhaps a non-issue?
Shouldn’t a squad be picked on ‘fit to playing style’or dare I say it ‘ability’?
It has been suggested that Venables was happy to not rock any boats. Bobby Robson made a point of saying he woild pick 11 black players if they were the right players. There was definitely an expectation from The Suits. Earlier when Graham Taylor was in charge the FA had been more specific about black players:

"Taylor is said to have revealed this during a function at Watford’s ground during the 1999-2000 season when Richie Moran was the guest speaker. Moran, a Birmingham City player in the 1990s who eventually quit the game because of the racial abuse he suffered, recalls in the book: “Graham Taylor came up to me and said: ‘Look, I’m going to tell you something … I’m never going to admit it, I will be sued for libel.’ He said: ‘When I was manager of England I was called in by two members of the FA, who I won’t name …’ I volunteered two names. He said: ‘I’m not prepared to say, but I was told in no uncertain terms not to pick too many black players for the national side."

I thought at the time that Venables seemed to have a rather white squad (and indeed he did nothing to deal with the 'club rivalry' bollocks that was rife, and is now absent in the England set up. Well done Southgate for that). I am not remotely suggesting he was racist, but he was a man of the 70s and I thought he was too eager to not rock boats. His win record isn't all that either...

1720728772386.png


And he won only two proper trophies as a club manager:

1720728860193.png
 




GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
48,670
Gloucester
Win or lose, we need a change.... just not effin Potter.
I'm definitely not on message with NSC over Potter - I quite like him - but I don't see him as an England manager; the perfect job for him was a hands-on day to day long term development project ..................................

..................like the one he had at Brighton! His loss, IMHO!
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,738
Worthing
It has been suggested that Venables was happy to not rock any boats. Bobby Robson made a point of saying he woild pick 11 black players if they were the right players. There was definitely an expectation from The Suits. Earlier when Graham Taylor was in charge the FA had been more specific about black players:

"Taylor is said to have revealed this during a function at Watford’s ground during the 1999-2000 season when Richie Moran was the guest speaker. Moran, a Birmingham City player in the 1990s who eventually quit the game because of the racial abuse he suffered, recalls in the book: “Graham Taylor came up to me and said: ‘Look, I’m going to tell you something … I’m never going to admit it, I will be sued for libel.’ He said: ‘When I was manager of England I was called in by two members of the FA, who I won’t name …’ I volunteered two names. He said: ‘I’m not prepared to say, but I was told in no uncertain terms not to pick too many black players for the national side."

I thought at the time that Venables seemed to have a rather white squad (and indeed he did nothing to deal with the 'club rivalry' bollocks that was rife, and is now absent in the England set up. Well done Southgate for that). I am not remotely suggesting he was racist, but he was a man of the 70s and I thought he was too eager to not rock boats. His win record isn't all that either...








View attachment 185513

And he won only two proper trophies as a club manager:
But there is significant context in some of those….
Barcelona had not won la liga for many years and his win record up to 98, is actually quite good….. after that he had many other interests…..

I would also argue he did deal with the ‘club rivalry’, that actually resurfaced more under Taylor, and stayed until Southgate.
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,738
Worthing
Of course. It is notable how the proportion of black players getting caps has increase in the last 20 years, along with the increase in the proportion of black plyers per se. Of course we can never know the reason. Certainly however 10 years earlier managers were told to not pick 'too many' black players.

Fair enough.
Completely off-topic, but I was the England game when Viv Anderson became the first black player to play for England….
Another good player…..

Edit - I realise Jack Leslie was posthumously awarded an England cap.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,953
Faversham
But there is significant context in some of those….
Barcelona had not won la liga for many years and his win record up to 98, is actually quite good….. after that he had many other interests…..

I would also argue he did deal with the ‘club rivalry’, that actually resurfaced more under Taylor, and stayed until Southgate.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,953
Faversham
But there is significant context in some of those….
Barcelona had not won la liga for many years and his win record up to 98, is actually quite good….. after that he had many other interests…..

I would also argue he did deal with the ‘club rivalry’, that actually resurfaced more under Taylor, and stayed until Southgate.
True enough. But his one win was a bit of a blip. Both for Barcelona at the time, and for him. Barcelona from 91 was a different animal.

Anyway, I liked him despite his modest achievements.

1720731259992.png
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
15,066
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
It has been suggested that Venables was happy to not rock any boats. Bobby Robson made a point of saying he woild pick 11 black players if they were the right players. There was definitely an expectation from The Suits. Earlier when Graham Taylor was in charge the FA had been more specific about black players:

"Taylor is said to have revealed this during a function at Watford’s ground during the 1999-2000 season when Richie Moran was the guest speaker. Moran, a Birmingham City player in the 1990s who eventually quit the game because of the racial abuse he suffered, recalls in the book: “Graham Taylor came up to me and said: ‘Look, I’m going to tell you something … I’m never going to admit it, I will be sued for libel.’ He said: ‘When I was manager of England I was called in by two members of the FA, who I won’t name …’ I volunteered two names. He said: ‘I’m not prepared to say, but I was told in no uncertain terms not to pick too many black players for the national side."

I thought at the time that Venables seemed to have a rather white squad (and indeed he did nothing to deal with the 'club rivalry' bollocks that was rife, and is now absent in the England set up. Well done Southgate for that). I am not remotely suggesting he was racist, but he was a man of the 70s and I thought he was too eager to not rock boats. His win record isn't all that either...

View attachment 185513

And he won only two proper trophies as a club manager:

View attachment 185514
'The Impossible Job' documentary is still on YouTube. The clip of Taylor meeting with the FA international committee duffers/county FA blazers and justifying Paul Gascoigne to them is very telling. The bull**** and FA politics England managers faced in days of yore is incredible.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,953
Faversham
'The Impossible Job' documentary is still on YouTube. The clip of Taylor meeting with the FA international committee duffers/county FA blazers and justifying Paul Gascoigne to them is very telling. The bull**** and FA politics England managers faced in days of yore is incredible.
Indeed. How we ever managed to win the WC in 66 is beyond me. And the sight of everyone waving little union flags is quite preposterous. English disregard for the rest of the union back then is staggering. What amess of a country :facepalm:
 




Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
62,189
Location Location
You have just proven my point. Venables' finest moment was being mugged by the Germans at Wembley. And it wasn't even a final.

Anyone can say he coulda, woulda, shoulda. But he didna .

So his approval is disproportionate to his achievements. :shrug:

(I admit I instinctively much preferred Venables to Southgate, despite his evident racist team selections. But when I think about it, I can't justify it.)
Agreed. Venables was only ever in charge for 5 competitive games for England, all of them at Wembley. And we were pretty crap in most of them.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
52,296
Goldstone
'The Impossible Job' documentary is still on YouTube. The clip of Taylor meeting with the FA international committee duffers/county FA blazers and justifying Paul Gascoigne to them is very telling. The bull**** and FA politics England managers faced in days of yore is incredible.

The FA is the reason we've not won a tournament since 66
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
54,953
Faversham
The FA is the reason we've not won a tournament since 66
Would you have liked to have seen Clough manage England (in a hands-untied landscape)? I'm not sure if he could have succeeded without dropping all the Leeds players - who he hated. Jury's out for me.
 








Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
52,296
Goldstone
Would you have liked to have seen Clough manage England (in a hands-untied landscape)? I'm not sure if he could have succeeded without dropping all the Leeds players - who he hated. Jury's out for me.

I know Clough's name is banded about a lot. I don't know or claim to know who'd have been the best choice at any given time (it wasn't my job to), but I know the choices were often awful. That they told managers not to play black players is beyond unacceptable.

When we played Israel under the wolly with the brolly, I actually supported Israel, in the hope that a loss would see the idiot replaced. We drew. And went on to fail to even qualify for the finals.
 










Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
25,583
Relax, the FA want him to stay...


I suppose they can't really sack him. The biggest concern may be the quality of who comes in. He has the players on his side.
 




Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
62,189
Location Location
Really, pretty crap against a very good Dutch team, German Team and of course we beat the jocks. Spain not great and Switzerland. Hardly crap in most of them!!
vs Switzerland - crap
vs Scotch - crap (till Gascoigne)
vs Holland- great
vs Spain - crap, and lucky
vs Germany - great

Thats 3 out of 5 craps, which equals....mostly crap. But it was fun.
 


hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,899
Kitbag in Dubai
I suppose they can't really sack him. The biggest concern may be the quality of who comes in. He has the players on his side.
Firstly, there would be no need to sack him as his contract expires in December. It could be left to run down.

Secondly, there's 2 separate things that you're talking about here.
1. The overall quality of his replacement.
2. Whether or not a replacement would get the players on their side as much as Southgate has.

Now I'll concede that popularity with players may be a factor. But it's just one of the many qualities sought in a manager.
And likeability certainly shouldn't be given greater importance than tactical proficiency which Southgate lacks.

If the FA don't want to look further than Southgate for England's future, it's a telling indictment of their myopic approach.
 


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