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[Politics] The NSC 'up all night' election night *** OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD ***







Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
If a third of the nation voted for a political party and that party takes two thirds of the seats in parliament that is not democracy or a fair reflection, or representation, of the will of the nation. There is no counter argument that stands against it.

If Albion beat a team 3-2 but the other side were awarded the match 2-1 on the basis that their goals came in two different quarters and Albion's in just one you wouldn't be happy. You would say Albion won fair and square. But that is what you have in our electoral system.
Labour won by the rules. Your analogy is poor because that isn't the rules in football.

The only way to change the system is to get enough MPs to agree to change the system. Find out which party supports PR, and vote for them.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,294
Professor Sir John Curtice on 5Live earlier this morning expressed the view that Labour didn't win, the Tories lost and bigtime.

In 2019, Labour got 10,269,051 votes, which was 32.!%.
Thus far, Labour have 9,650,254 votes, which is 33.8%.

I guess what we don't know is to what extent people moved their votes around in a way that largely cancelled out others doing the same, but it's difficult to get away from the view that Reform voters handed Labour a large number of seats.
As it's difficult to get away from the fact that UKIP handed Bojo a large number of seats by not standing in 2019.
It's worrying that Farage has effectively been the kingmaker, in the last 2 elections.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,294
Just scanning some results and I see all furore around Faiza Shaheen's deselection in Chingford and Woodford Green almost certainly kept IDS in a job...

IDS (Con) - 17,281
Shama Tatler (Lab) - 12,524
Faiza Shaheen (Ind) - 12,445

Yeah I saw Shaheen close to tears blaming Starmer for letting IDS in.
A little more self-awareness might have been good.
 


Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,108
Mid Sussex
As it's difficult to get away from the fact that UKIP handed Bojo a large number of seats by not standing in 2019.
It's worrying that Farage has effectively been the kingmaker, in the last 2 elections.
He didn’t stand against Boris because 1) he couldn’t compete with Boris on the popularity stakes with the right wing electorate and is ego wouldn’t let him play second fiddle. 2) UKIP were obsolete at that point.
This time round he had a niche with no competition because of the shit show that is the Tory party.
He’s not a king maker, he’s just very careful about the battles he picks. He’s either very clever or a coward. I suspect he’s both.
 




TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
12,203
There are only two seats left to declare. South Basildon and East Thurrock is having a full recount starting at 2pm this afternoon. It is believed to be tight, with Reform UK’s James McMurdock apparently likely to become their fifth MP ahead of Labour’s Jack Ferguson. Conservative Stephen Metcalfe, MP there since 2010, is believed to have come third.
 








Sid and the Sharknados

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 4, 2022
4,932
Darlington
If a third of the nation voted for a political party and that party takes two thirds of the seats in parliament that is not democracy or a fair reflection, or representation, of the will of the nation. There is no counter argument that stands against it.

If Albion beat a team 3-2 but the other side were awarded the match 2-1 on the basis that their goals came in two different quarters and Albion's in just one you wouldn't be happy. You would say Albion won fair and square. But that is what you have in our electoral system.
Have you only just noticed this?
 








goldstone

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
7,154
The Tories have abandoned sensible policies in recent years, they've made themselves a pointless party.

They need to reflect on what they've done to the country in the past decade and think carefully before veering off further to the right
Veering further to the right is what the Tories DO need to do. They've been far to close to the centre with high taxation and a failure to address the wokeism destroying our country.
 




nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
14,159
Manchester
With you, we’re the last FPTP stalwarts on nsc, stubborn f@ckers.

One of my reasons was to keep out extremes, unlike in France, Netherlands and Germany just now. FPTP prevented a further 87 Reform MP’s, job done.

But this is the biggest disparity of an overall majority vote share to MP’s in history, 33.7% of the vote delivered 64% of the Commons. Feels odd. Feels unfair, but I’m pleased Labour have a chance to mend.
If France had a FPTP system like ours, National Rally (Le Pen's lot) would already have a majority and be in goverment with 33% of the vote. FPTP doesn't keep out extremes out of actual power once they reach a tipping point of popular support, which seems to be in the low 30s.

I wouldn't have objected to Reform winning a proportional 90 odd seats based on their popular vote as it wouldn't have give given them any real influence in a parliament of 650. Balancing that out, the Lib Dems would've had over 80 seats and the Greens about 45.
 






Gabbiano

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2017
1,483
Spank the Manc
Why the wins for the Greens in North Herefordshire and Waveney Valley?

Nice to see the Greens get some extra seats but would like to understand why those two in particular.

Brighton and Bristol are full of left leaning, airy fairy, crunchy, hippy types of course, as we're so often told. So the Green vote suits those demographics.

What is it about the other two very rural seats?
 


Sid and the Sharknados

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 4, 2022
4,932
Darlington
Just a bit tired of being told x person y person is an anti Semite, when I come from a Jewish background, I know what anti Semitism is, I agree that Labour has had a good landslide, but like I said everyone involved in this was stupid, she shouldn't have been deselected the eve of the deadline, but also she should have stood aside, another fundamentally stupid decision, as Labour would have and should have won easily. Once again nuance goes out the window and its something to do with Jeremy Corbyn again.
Just on the matter of timing, and without wishing to get bogged down in the specifics of this case, if a party doesn't think a candidate is suitable for any reason it shouldn't matter if it's the eve of the deadline, 6months before or 2years into the Parliament.
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,352
Veering further to the right is what the Tories DO need to do. They've been far too close to the centre with high taxation and a failure to address the wokeism destroying our country.
You think that elections can be won without winning the centre?
 




A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
19,195
Deepest, darkest Sussex
 




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