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[Football] Sin bin trial...



GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,259
Gloucester
Waste of time, and complicating the game still further. Will we have to have a fifth official, with a box full of stop watches, to monitor that the players are off for ten minutes, no more, no less. A nice well paid sinecure for a second rate referee there, I guess.

What would be useful (and a good use for the VAR, working with the referee) is the VAR (and maybe an assessor) watching a re-run of the game, slowly and with pauses, re-runs etc. and handing out retrospective yellow cards for simulation, for going down as if caught by sniper fire clutching their face feining a head injury when they've had a slight nudge, time wasting that the referee didn't notice/take action. They could also look at incidents the referee missed/chose to ignore - like being mobbed by players and bottling out of handing out cards at the time.
 

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,390
Gods country fortnightly
It sounds like a decent idea in theory, could clean the game up.

However, if it means more VAR extended breaks to make a decision it will just descend into a farce.
 

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 6, 2003
19,270
Great another rule that can be applied inconsistently from match to match to give us even more to be raging about

Nah not for me thanks
"And VAR have decided that Player X should NOT have in fact been sent to the Sin Bin, so he's been allowed back on the field, the game clock has been reset to the time when he was sent into it and the opposition's goal they scored whilst he was in the bin has been chalked off."

As others have said I'm sure the Law of Unintended Consequences will soon make this yet another area for conflict and rows about different refs doing different things - and I wonder how they are going to make sure that a player serves EXACTLY ten minutes. They'll have to let the players back on whilst play is in progress.
 

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,346
Cumbria
Personally I'd ban the ability to let a player shepherd a ball over the line without trying to play it, similar to Aussie Rules ( there We can't deliberately put the ball out of play periid)
Often wondered why this is allowed. Anywhere else on the pitch it's deliberate obstruction.
 


Driver8

On the road...
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 31, 2005
15,921
North Wales
Will make the game boring teams will dig in every time they go down to ten. Stupid idea.
Can you imagine Villa if they have a player sin binned? Martinez would hold the ball for five minutes then feign a head injury.
 

Eeyore

Lord Donkey of Queen's Park
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Apr 5, 2014
23,172
Sorry but No. Teams on the receiving end will just fake injuries, take even longer to take throw ins etc.

The principle is ok, but clubs will find a way to bend the rules and then we will also have endless debates on why player 'A' was sent to the sin bin, and player 'B' didn't get put in it for the same offence. Just like kicking the ball away. We got a booking at Forest for this but I counted 6 occasions when Forest players did this and no action was taken.

Too many changes will just complicate the issue.

Ditch VAR or have off sides drawn by the line of players feet, and keep goal line tech. That's it.
Totally agree with VAR idea. Long been an advocate of sin bin though. The only problem is that in rugby play carries on for injuries and players don't fake anyway because the clock is stopped by the referee.

There is an arguement for the same in football. I.e, when play stops for an injury then the clock stops. But it would be difficult to administrate.

If football has started out with rugby rules in this area I think things would be different now. But it's hard to apply in retrospect.
 

essbee1

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2014
4,051
Can you imagine Villa if they have a player sin binned? Martinez would hold the ball for five minutes then feign a head injury.
This. It would turn what is already a bit of farce into a complete and utter farce. Can you imagine the antics of
players trying to run the 10-minute sin bin time down? Also, players are more likely to pick up injuries coming back
on. Bad, bad move.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 6, 2003
19,270
Lots of posters saying its impractical , won't work and refs have other options. This is partly the reason its being trialled but also overlooks that its been in place lower down the pyramid for years where dissent and abuse is arguably far worse and has made a real difference. I interviewed multiple refs/teams when i wrote about it a few years ago and the feedback was universally positive. it seemed inevitable it would be adopted in the professional game.
Interesting. I must admit when I first heard I was probably 80/20 in the 'no' camp, but having read a bit about it it does seem to have had a positive effect at the lower end of the pyramid. Be interesting to see how the trial progresses.
 

essbee1

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2014
4,051
Interesting. I must admit when I first heard I was probably 80/20 in the 'no' camp, but having read a bit about it it does seem to have had a positive effect at the lower end of the pyramid. Be interesting to see how the trial progresses.
But in the lower leagues, with all respect, there are not £100s of millions at stake and prima donna egos (the moan factor would go through the roof).
 

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 6, 2003
19,270
But in the lower leagues, with all respect, there are not £100s of millions at stake and prima donna egos (the moan factor would go through the roof).
Yes, true and on balance I'm (currently) still opposed, but I AM interested in seeing how the trial goes before I take up my pitchfork and burning torch.

(Although frankly I'd rather they sorted out VAR before they introduce another major change. The lower leagues don't have to contend with that).
 


jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 17, 2008
10,287
At grassroots level this was quite successful. I’ve long since stopped refereeing but it was a useful deterrent for us. Roll it out I say.
 

SAC

Well-known member
May 21, 2014
2,501
Such a shame that players can't be trusted that something as awful as a sinbin has to be considered. Players aren't going to change so, I suppose, it's worth trying.
 

Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,334
I wrote this piece about SIn bins when they were trialled in grassroots a few years back for that When Saturday Comes

Also reminded me that Lewis Dunk has perhaps swore once or twice at the ref on a football pitch before.


>>>>
A Saturday lunchtime in November and the rain is falling hard in the Cardiff Stadium. Referee Martin Atkinson stands a few metres away as Brighton midfielder Dale Stephens dives into a second tackle, this time completely missing the ball. His captain; centre half Lewis Dunk on seeing Atkinson whistle and then reach for the inevitable red card, mouthes to the Sky viewers watching in close up, an obvious and very angry “F. OFF”. Atkinson doesn’t appear to notice , the commentators don’t consider it unusual enough to mention it, and the game just carries on. When broadcaster Jacqui Oatley shares the clip on Twitter a few days later asking, understandably, how this typical Premier League behaviour, looks to impressionable young fans and contrasts with the FA’s Respect programme, 10 years old this year, she inevitably gets a lot of “respect” back as replies into her feed.

On the same weekend, its the end of a under 16s league match in Sussex. One lad, after the ref has waved away his pleadings to give a foul, has just suggested loudly and heard by all of the 20 or so spectators huddled on a pitch near the South Downs, that he should’ve gone to “F..ing Specsavers”. The ref picks up a yellow card. marches the player off to the sidelines for dissent, reducing his team to 10 men. The coach shakes his head. Yet this is a temporary dismissal only. The player comes back on the pitch 8 minutes later and the game continues.

Starting last season, the FA have been trialling Sin Bins across multiple grassroots and youth leagues. Its been revised after initial experiments were deemed unsuccessful with the FA general secretary arguing “There was an impact on flow of game and willingness of players to commit to tackles.”

Now deliberately focusing on dissent, its been almost universally received with FA surveys showing dramatic falls in backchat and swearing and a desire amongst managers and players for it to continue. As the guidelines put it “The philosophy is that an ‘instant punishment’ can
have a significant and immediate positive influence on the behaviour of the offending player and, potentially, the
player’s team”. The trial although being extended slowly will become mandatory in all Step 7 leagues and below starting in 2019/20.

Good news for our Specsavers averse ref from Sussex then who looks after a variety of adult and youth games ?

“Yes. I have used it on numerous occasions. I’ve been doing this for 6 years now. When I walk on the pitch the players often see me as an old man who hasn't got a clue about football so I get it all. But I can't recall once where that player has come back on the pitch and continued to show dissent. It works.”

In Rugby there’s a similar story. Sin Bins were introduced in the Six Nations nearly a generation ago. Parent and Brighton fan; Max Cooter argues . “It works a treat with young players, they learn when they're about 9 that gobbing off gets you nowhere. In six years of watching my kids play. I’ve only seen one yellow card.”

Change is still hard though, and one grassroots ref I spoke to said he was refusing to adopt them; “I haven’t time for any more of that FA bollocks” he laughed although he then made valid points about the complexity of managing the timings and being able to document multiple dismissals whilst still concentrating on the game for his £22 fee. The FA’s head of referees, Neale Barry, is nonetheless more bullish about their roll out and said to Sky earlier this year said he was “almost certain” that it would be introduced by the FA in professional leagues in the future.

Later on in November, in a grassroots game in Ireland, Daniel Comber has just finished officiating a 3-1 victory for Mullingar Town v Horseleap. In the car park after the match, he’s approached, allegedly by 3 players and a fan, and assaulted. Comber suffered a broken jaw, stitches in his nose and a black eye. The story provoked widespread condemnation, several national news stories and the sharing of similar stories of attacks on refs up and down the country in grassroots football.

Our Specsavers ref isn’t surprised and says, as a matter of fact that he’d been assaulted by a linesman a few years ago. “It can be a very lonely experience out there, as a player you have 10 other people on the pitch watching your back, but as a referee you are on your own”

>>>>
Personally think the Dunk response from certain media has been totally over the top. I can't condone what he did but it happens every game with most players swearing at refs and their decisions. It is also potentially biased against native English speaking players unless the refs have got a translator box fitted to that head set.

Regards sin bins a good idea IMO , needs to include time wasting and potentially all yellow cards.
 



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