[Football] 'Simulation'. Probably 'fixtures' ..... BUT......

[Pevenseagull]

Why not call it 'booked for cheating'?

 

[trueblue]

Indeed. A good idea.

 

[Superphil]

100% that, ****ing cheating ********. If the match report read “*XYZ striker booked for cheating” it could well change the players attitude to doing it in the first place.

Let’s face it, no-one likes to be called a cheat, Including cosseted and fragile snowflake multi millionaire footballers.

XYZ is not a new signing BTW.

 

[Geoffbn2]

it's time the change the phrasing, No one should win a free kick or penalty instead one should be awarded against the offender and their team. I hate hearing the phrase player X won a free kick or even worse a penalty

 

[trueblue]

On the subject of cheating, obviously the Chelsea fans are out in force tonight moaning about the Willian decision. Maybe they should consider that they had 2 others booked for diving in the same game.

Perhaps if their players had been a bit more determined to stay on their feet, the referee may have been less inclined to think Willian had also gone down too easily...

Too much ref blaming these days when it's the players who make it impossible.

 

[Quinney]

Before tonight I actually thought there’s been less diving when games were VAR for obvious reasons, even Palace avoided it. What’s the point in diving when there’s no contact, as surely VAR will simply reverse the decision.


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[Pevenseagull]

With the scores level, In the 88th minute of this crucial game, XYZ shoulder to shoulder with ABC running in on goal, he decided to try and cheat.
After protesting his yellow card like a petulant child he was sent off.
His team lost in injury time.

 

[kevo]

On the subject of cheating, obviously the Chelsea fans are out in force tonight moaning about the Willian decision. Maybe they should consider that they had 2 others booked for diving in the same game.

Perhaps if their players had been a bit more determined to stay on their feet, the referee may have been less inclined to think Willian had also gone down too easily...

Too much ref blaming these days when it's the players who make it impossible.

Exactly correct. They can hardly moan when a decision goes against them when they dive all the time.

 

[maffew]

To me if a player dives to cheat to a penalty I'd like to see a red card shown, same as a defender handling on the line

 

[trueblue]

I can see VAR being howled down though at this rate. The BBC reaction in the studio was disgraceful last night. I like watching Gary Lineker generally but it was one of those occasions when they really proved the limitations of everyone on the show being an ex-pro. Wouldn't have happened with a journalist like the great Des in the chair - he'd have ventured the opposite case.

Although their backgrounds give them expertise, the idea that players have 'a right to go down' and all that guff is what's ruining football. I think fans wants players to at least try to stay on their feet. In theory, VAR should help players that are fouled but plough on to get penalties even if they don't go down.

 

[Steve.S]

I can see VAR being howled down though at this rate. The BBC reaction in the studio was disgraceful last night. I like watching Gary Lineker generally but it was one of those occasions when they really proved the limitations of everyone on the show being an ex-pro. Wouldn't have happened with a journalist like the great Des in the chair - he'd have ventured the opposite case.

Although their backgrounds give them expertise, the idea that players have 'a right to go down' and all that guff is what's ruining football. I think fans wants players to at least try to stay on their feet. In theory, VAR should help players that are fouled but plough on to get penalties even if they don't go down.

We must of watched different games. They only said Willians was a foul and the booking is debatable as he was clipped by the defender. Shearer actually said Pedro should have been given a straight red for his blatant dive. And only Zola thought Morata had the right to go down the rest thought it wasn’t a penalty

 

[SAC]

A player that gets fouled in the box but stays upright to try and score is much less likely to get a penalty than one that gets fouled and goes down. Until this changes then players will continue to exaggerate or simulate to ensure that a foul is given. That obviously doesn't excuse any players cheating when they haven't even been fouled.

 

[Superphil]

On the subject of cheating, obviously the Chelsea fans are out in force tonight moaning about the Willian decision. Maybe they should consider that they had 2 others booked for diving in the same game.

Perhaps if their players had been a bit more determined to stay on their feet, the referee may have been less inclined to think Willian had also gone down too easily...

Too much ref blaming these days when it's the players who make it impossible.

Willian looked to me to make no effort whatsoever to avoid the tackle, he let the tackle take him down. Maybe that's how the referee saw it.

 

[Audax]

Perhaps if their players had been a bit more determined to stay on their feet, the referee may have been less inclined to think Willian had also gone down too easily...

Too much ref blaming these days when it's the players who make it impossible.

Willian looked to me to make no effort whatsoever to avoid the tackle, he let the tackle take him down. Maybe that's how the referee saw it.

Ref (and VAR) both got the Willian situation right IMO. The key for me here is that Willian has clearly taken action of his own that made it certain he would be clipped by the tackle and go down as a result. He's pointed his toes the ground and tucked his feet backwards and allowed forward momentum to carry him into the tackle and then gone done in a lovely gymnastics tumble. He could just as easily have lifted his feet, gone over the tackle, and continued on ... except he knew he'd put the ball too far out front to get anything out of doing that, so he made sure he went down.

My opinion: that counts as a dive. The defender has got it completely wrong (he's late, and still stuck the leg out), however Willian is complicit in that he's taken action to deliberately allow the tackle to take him down when he could easily have avoided it. There's split seconds in it, but there was a window of opportunity there where the tackle could have been aborted (lift the knee and tuck the foot under instead of thrusting it out front). Had the defender done that, Willian would have looked a fool because he'd already committed to going down from the moment he'd made his final touch on the ball.

 

[trueblue]

We must of watched different games. They only said Willians was a foul and the booking is debatable as he was clipped by the defender. Shearer actually said Pedro should have been given a straight red for his blatant dive. And only Zola thought Morata had the right to go down the rest thought it wasn’t a penalty

Clearly we did. They even ended the show with a sarcastic comment about VAR.

 

[Steve.S]

Clearly we did. They even ended the show with a sarcastic comment about VAR.

It’s no wonder when a system creates more questions then it answers. It’s run by refs for refs. It clearly did not work in the Willian tackle. There was contact, yes obviously that doesn’t mean you have to give a penalty and it wasn’t clear cut. But the issue is that he booked Willian for diving, the same for Morata, again contact, and yes not a penalty, nevertheless the player felt a touch and went down. So Var has solved nothing as in future the discussion will be about contact and if you don’t give free kicks/penalty then you will have to book players for diving. I don’t think anyone connected to football today thinks that Var was not a success. It’s early days for Var and clarity is needed. I just heard Graham Poll say that Var doesn’t use the same angles as the Tv companies. He thought it was a penalty

 

[Steve.S]

Ref (and VAR) both got the Willian situation right IMO. The key for me here is that Willian has clearly taken action of his own that made it certain he would be clipped by the tackle and go down as a result. He's pointed his toes the ground and tucked his feet backwards and allowed forward momentum to carry him into the tackle and then gone done in a lovely gymnastics tumble. He could just as easily have lifted his feet, gone over the tackle, and continued on ... except he knew he'd put the ball too far out front to get anything out of doing that, so he made sure he went down.

My opinion: that counts as a dive. The defender has got it completely wrong (he's late, and still stuck the leg out), however Willian is complicit in that he's taken action to deliberately allow the tackle to take him down when he could easily have avoided it. There's split seconds in it, but there was a window of opportunity there where the tackle could have been aborted (lift the knee and tuck the foot under instead of thrusting it out front). Had the defender done that, Willian would have looked a fool because he'd already committed to going down from the moment he'd made his final touch on the ball.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...overturned-willians-yellow-diving-could-have/

 

[Paul Skinback]

Before tonight I actually thought there’s been less diving when games were VAR for obvious reasons, even Palace avoided it. What’s the point in diving when there’s no contact, as surely VAR will simply reverse the decision.


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Had they used VAR at the Burnley game, Ashley Barnes would be banned until next season, flung himself about like Hazard. Went down once from a shoulder barge like he'd been tackled by Puncheon.

 

[trueblue]

It’s no wonder when a system creates more questions then it answers. It’s run by refs for refs. It clearly did not work in the Willian tackle. There was contact, yes obviously that doesn’t mean you have to give a penalty and it wasn’t clear cut. But the issue is that he booked Willian for diving, the same for Morata, again contact, and yes not a penalty, nevertheless the player felt a touch and went down. So Var has solved nothing

They've admitted that the Willian yellow card should have been rescinded and a penalty awarded. However, it doesn't really matter that "VAR has solved nothing" in a case like this. It's purpose is not to scrutinise every single subjective decision in minute detail and make marginal calls. It's to avoid absolute stinking and obvious howlers like the Thierry Henry handball that took France to the World Cup.That can only be a good thing. Looking at an additional 4 angles of major incidents won't catch everything and there'll still be debatable decisions, but it's better than 1 ref running flat out with his view possibly obscured. Of course, they could look at more angles and more carefully - but if they do that, then it can't be THAT obvious and will slow the game down far too much.

As for 'it's run by refs, for refs", I'm not sure why that's a bad thing. If you mean it's been introduced to cut out the institutionalised cheating that ex-pros advocate week in, week out as 'he's entitled to go down' then I'd say that's fantastic for the fans and the game in general.

 

[Peter Ward]

Ref (and VAR) both got the Willian situation right IMO. The key for me here is that Willian has clearly taken action of his own that made it certain he would be clipped by the tackle and go down as a result. He's pointed his toes the ground and tucked his feet backwards and allowed forward momentum to carry him into the tackle and then gone done in a lovely gymnastics tumble. He could just as easily have lifted his feet, gone over the tackle, and continued on ... except he knew he'd put the ball too far out front to get anything out of doing that, so he made sure he went down.

My opinion: that counts as a dive. The defender has got it completely wrong (he's late, and still stuck the leg out), however Willian is complicit in that he's taken action to deliberately allow the tackle to take him down when he could easily have avoided it. There's split seconds in it, but there was a window of opportunity there where the tackle could have been aborted (lift the knee and tuck the foot under instead of thrusting it out front). Had the defender done that, Willian would have looked a fool because he'd already committed to going down from the moment he'd made his final touch on the ball.

THIS exactly