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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,319
if there is mechanisms then it's a moot discussion and that can be done. the fact that nothing like that has happened and experts cite no legal way to do so, or looking for one, indicates there is not. international and national laws say we can impose santions and freeze assets, and have done so.


see right there is the problem. who's assets are they, Putin's, the Russian State's, the Russian population's misappropriated assets? we take some money to pay reparations for the war Ukraine, that takes away from the Russian people. maybe we say they are complicit, they deserve it, either way starts to get sketchy.

i hope there will be reparations, done properly, ideally from any assets Putin has direct control over. however i'm mindful that if we take that route, a future Russian government cant recover them for their people. ees complicated.
This article (free) cites a wider article on bloomberg (behind paywall).

Legal opinion (legal), Russian state assets only and not above value of damage caused.

 
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Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,252
'Scenes the Kremlin didn't want to see'


I noticed the following in the article:

In a call with reporters on Friday morning, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was asked about Alexei Navalny.
"The Kremlin doesn't have anything to say to Navalny's family on the day of his funeral," he says.
He declines to give any assessment of Navalny as a political figure.
Peskov also reiterates that any unsanctioned gatherings violate the law.
"Accordingly, those who participate in them will be held accountable," he says.
 


hampshirebrightonboy

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2011
966
you go through a proper process with established international agreement. you dont just dip into their accounts without a legally sound basis.
Nazi gold was stolen wasn't it? so it gets returned to the orginal owner. yes, it would be unethical and illegal* to seize the crazed lunatic's money, you want some law for perpetrators to have their money seized in certain conditions. otherwise you end up with all sorts of people having assets seized and stolen by the state beacuse they did unrelated bad things. rule of law is a foundation of the western liberal democracies, not summary justice.

* there is law on proceeds of crime that might apply, aimed at confiscating money from criminal activity.
No think we should seize the money and let them take us to court. See how that goes.
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,559
Wiltshire
'Scenes the Kremlin didn't want to see'


I noticed the following in the article:

In a call with reporters on Friday morning, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was asked about Alexei Navalny.
"The Kremlin doesn't have anything to say to Navalny's family on the day of his funeral," he says.
He declines to give any assessment of Navalny as a political figure.
Peskov also reiterates that any unsanctioned gatherings violate the law.
"Accordingly, those who participate in them will be held accountable," he says.
They'll need to hold hundreds if not thousands then.
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,252
They'll need to hold hundreds if not thousands then.
The danger to the Kremlin, is organised gatherings. Divide and conquer. When people gather, they can exchange news and ideas, and plot against the state.

It is easy to be cynical, resigned, silent, but there are a lot of brave people at that funeral. Many others won't be as courageous, but will feel the same way and be watching. We could be at the very beginning of something significant.

Alexei Navalny RIP.
 








beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,284














Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,252
Incredible really...these very brave people are the tip of an iceberg hopefully
Let's hope so. Here is the Navalny team Youtube channel.

6.38m subscribers, 255,000 watching it live. Look at the volume of the messages incoming.

(I've no idea if it is accessible inside Russia, nor what proportion Russians make towards those numbers).



(Google it first and watch it on YT to see the numbers).
 


brighton_dave

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2016
422
would be embarrassing if they then won in court. then have to pay back.
To be very blunt, if they won in court, and we were in a place where the t*unts had been forced out of Ukraine, I'd take that. If that meant my tax rate goes up, so be it.
Too many people lose sight that people are more important than money.
I'd pay with a smile on my face knowing what I'm paying back stopped the torture in Ukraine.

If it weren't for my wife and kids I'd be out there too, that is for certain. All we can do is support them however we can.
 




brighton_dave

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2016
422
Let's hope so. Here is the Navalny team Youtube channel.

6.38m subscribers, 255,000 watching it live. Look at the volume of the messages incoming.

(I've no idea if it is accessible inside Russia, nor what proportion Russians make towards those numbers).



(Google it first and watch it on YT to see the numbers).

Emotional that. Seeing how brave they are given the potential consequences. Too many people take for granted how lucky they are to have been born in GB. I can't imagine living in such a country.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,935
To be very blunt, if they won in court, and we were in a place where the t*unts had been forced out of Ukraine, I'd take that. If that meant my tax rate goes up, so be it.
Too many people lose sight that people are more important than money.
I'd pay with a smile on my face knowing what I'm paying back stopped the torture in Ukraine.

If it weren't for my wife and kids I'd be out there too, that is for certain. All we can do is support them however we can.
Even this large amount of money is symbolic in the scheme of the amount needed to wage a war on this scale. It won't tip the balance.

I as a UK tax payer would be furious if my tax money had to be paid to Russia because they won in a UK court because my government hadn't carried out due dilligence.

We need to get Ukraine the money, but we need to make sure we're going through the correct legal challenge. As this will presumably take time, we can up the amount of armaments we transfer and up our domestic manufacture to help back fill
 


brighton_dave

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2016
422
Even this large amount of money is symbolic in the scheme of the amount needed to wage a war on this scale. It won't tip the balance.

I as a UK tax payer would be furious if my tax money had to be paid to Russia because they won in a UK court because my government hadn't carried out due dilligence.

We need to get Ukraine the money, but we need to make sure we're going through the correct legal challenge. As this will presumably take time, we can up the amount of armaments we transfer and up our domestic manufacture to help back filling.

Even this large amount of money is symbolic in the scheme of the amount needed to wage a war on this scale. It won't tip the balance.

I as a UK tax payer would be furious if my tax money had to be paid to Russia because they won in a UK court because my government hadn't carried out due dilligence.

We need to get Ukraine the money, but we need to make sure we're going through the correct legal challenge. As this will presumably take time, we can up the amount of armaments we transfer and up our domestic manufacture to help back fill
I probably articulated that very badly. Yes I wouldn't agree we should have to pay it back, but if it meant peace, so be it.
That's just my view. Release the money now before it's too late and worry about anything else afterwards.
If Russia were to take legal action to recovery funds, we could surely offset that with Ukraine suing Russia.
 










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