[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sirnormangall]

Exactly. Find it difficult to comprehend how badly the Russians have played this tactically compared to the Ukrainians. Russia have used thousands of long range and guided missiles against Ukrainian infrastructure or just randomly at residential areas. There have been a few claims of military targets being hit but very few and far between. They must have shocking intelligence if they can't identify military factories, HQ positions arms manufacturing plants etc. Let alone the staging encampments of all these new brigades that were assembling prior to Ukraines counteroffensive.


Compare that to Ukraines tactics in the past month. Airfields, ships, naval repair facilities, bridges, command posts, ammunition dumps, HQ buildings. All to degrade Russias fighting capabilities. Chalk and Cheese

I would guess that the Ukrainian successes and targeting were helped massively by western support and intelligence, but they won’t want to make that public

 

[raymondo]

Hoping this turns out to be true

Military: 34 Russian Black Sea Fleet officers, including commander, killed in Sevastopol strike

Last week's strike against the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Sevastopol killed 34 Russian officers, including the fleet's commander, and injured 105 more soldiers, the Special Operations Forces Command of Ukraine's Armed Forces said on Sept. 25.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Eric the meek]

What have we got here?

First, Ukraine claim Sokolov was killed in the missile attack on the Sevastopol HQ of the Black Sea fleet.

Then Russia deny he was killed, and post a video of him in a meeting. But the video shows him only on a video link to the meeting, and not in the meeting itself. The clip of him is a less than convincing portrayal of a naval commander full of life. Sokolov doesn't move at all during the clip. Surely it wasn't beyond the Russians to find a clip of him (current or historical) in which Sokolov had a more convincing display of being alive?

For me, I have no idea whether he is alive or dead. The Russian video gave no clue. All it did was to confuse, obfuscate, and raise more questions. Perhaps that was the aim.

Watch the video (and read Michael Clarke's dismissal of it) here:

Ukraine war latest: Russia's assault in Donbas town 'flounders'; Moscow makes 'disturbing' effort to raise nuclear risks

A fire ignited in the Kharkiv region after drones were launched at civilian infrastructure, Ukraine has said. And US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Russia's decision to revoke their ratification of a global treaty on banning nuclear tests was a "step in the wrong direction".

news.sky.com

 

[Sirnormangall]

What have we got here?

First, Ukraine claim Sokolov was killed in the missile attack on the Sevastopol HQ of the Black Sea fleet.

Then Russia deny he was killed, and post a video of him in a meeting. But the video shows him only on a video link to the meeting, and not in the meeting itself. The clip of him is a less than convincing portrayal of a naval commander full of life. Sokolov doesn't move at all during the clip. Surely it wasn't beyond the Russians to find a clip of him (current or historical) in which Sokolov had a more convincing display of being alive?

For me, I have no idea whether he is alive or dead. The Russian video gave no clue. All it did was to confuse, obfuscate, and raise more questions. Perhaps that was the aim.

Watch the video (and read Michael Clarke's dismissal of it) here:

Ukraine war latest: Russia's assault in Donbas town 'flounders'; Moscow makes 'disturbing' effort to raise nuclear risks

A fire ignited in the Kharkiv region after drones were launched at civilian infrastructure, Ukraine has said. And US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Russia's decision to revoke their ratification of a global treaty on banning nuclear tests was a "step in the wrong direction".

news.sky.com

Likewise, I’ve no idea if he’s alive or dead, but if there’s something Russia is very good at it’s propaganda, misinformation and downright lying

 

[Eric the meek]

Likewise, I’ve no idea if he’s alive or dead, but if there’s something Russia is very good at it’s propaganda, misinformation and downright lying

Indeed.

I have always found it really, really odd behaviour for a nation state, ostensibly a 'super' power, that purportedly wants to be taken seriously, wants to be a player on the global stage etc.
By releasing videos like this, clearly designed to be vague and inconclusive, they betray their arrogance and in a sense, their unworldliness, in that they don't appreciate the damage they are doing to their reputation on the world stage.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Likewise, I’ve no idea if he’s alive or dead, but if there’s something Russia is very good at it’s propaganda, misinformation and downright lying

I saw a great documentary on the Beeb about the Russian revolution. The people in charge of Russia have been lying for centuries. Stalin got himself ‘photoshopped’ into photos from the ‘revolution’ which were published in the national press. Oh….and the revolution never happened in the way most Russians believe.

Lying and deception is the ‘go to’ for Russian leadership and probably always has been.

Are Ukrainian leaders are any different?

 

[GT49er]

I saw a great documentary on the Beeb about the Russian revolution. The people in charge of Russia have been lying for centuries. Stalin got himself ‘photoshopped’ into photos from the ‘revolution’ which were published in the national press. Oh….and the revolution never happened in the way most Russians believe.

Lying and deception is the ‘go to’ for Russian leadership and probably always has been.

Are Ukrainian leaders are any different?

Well.................yes.......

Unless you are a Putin supporter of course, and believe all the Russian official media shit. Are you sure NSC is the place for you?

 

[Triggaaar]

Oh….and the revolution never happened in the way most Russians believe.

Bit OT, but briefly what do they believe, and what is the truth?

 

[Eric the meek]

I saw a great documentary on the Beeb about the Russian revolution. The people in charge of Russia have been lying for centuries. Stalin got himself ‘photoshopped’ into photos from the ‘revolution’ which were published in the national press. Oh….and the revolution never happened in the way most Russians believe.

Lying and deception is the ‘go to’ for Russian leadership and probably always has been.

Are Ukrainian leaders are any different?

Russia's Hostile Intent - Why does Russia Behave like this? What does it achieve?​

Some time ago, I watched a very good video discussion hosted by Jonathan Fink. The key point is that Russia has not gone through the societal transformations that western liberal democracies have, and is operating in an entirely different timeframe (centuries old) when compared to the west. This message is in the first few minutes of the video, link below:

 

[Hugo Rune]

Bit OT, but briefly what do they believe, and what is the truth?

I’m sure you can dig out the documentary on the iplayer but centrists took control of Russia. Lenin and Trotsky were abroad and then waltzed in 6 months later to seize control. It was not violent and those two did not overthrow the royal family.

Russian history has been re-written time and again by those that rule. The lying and deception is profound. It’s normalised in Russia, it appears to be ingrained in their culture, in their DNA. The more power - the more lies.

 

[raymondo]

Ukraine are holding their gains around Novoprokopovka and Verbove in Zaporizhzhia. Reports today that Ukraine have significantly increased the shelling of Russian positions and analysts believe (hope ) this could be preparing the ground for a breakthrough.

 

[raymondo]

Russia is bidding to rejoin the UN Human Rights Council from which they were expelled after the Invasion in April 22.
Full article is on BBC website. ..but here's one vomit inducing section.

"In the next elections, due on 10 October, Russia will compete with Albania and Bulgaria for the two seats on the council reserved for central and eastern European countries.

IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
The Alley of the Flags at the United Nations HQ in Geneva, where the Human Rights Council meets

The vote will involve all 193 members of the UN general assembly in New York. Diplomats there said Russia was campaigning aggressively, offering small countries grain and arms in return for their votes."

 

[Triggaaar]

Diplomats there said Russia was campaigning aggressively, offering small countries grain and arms in return for their votes."

Russia has spare arms?

 

[Scappa]

Russia has spare arms?

Plenty lying around the place

 

[crookie]

Russia is bidding to rejoin the UN Human Rights Council from which they were expelled after the Invasion in April 22.
Full article is on BBC website. ..but here's one vomit inducing section.

"In the next elections, due on 10 October, Russia will compete with Albania and Bulgaria for the two seats on the council reserved for central and eastern European countries.

IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
The Alley of the Flags at the United Nations HQ in Geneva, where the Human Rights Council meets

The vote will involve all 193 members of the UN general assembly in New York. Diplomats there said Russia was campaigning aggressively, offering small countries grain and arms in return for their votes."

Surreal, clear to anyone with half a brain cell that Russia, if it even understands what Human Rights are, has absolutely zero respect for them

 

[Sirnormangall]

UN will lose all credibility if that’s allowed to happen.

 

[Triggaaar]

UN will lose all credibility if that’s allowed to happen.

UN has credibility?

 

[Eric the meek]

Warren and JC lamenting the missed chances.

I'm afraid that as always, they're spot on.

Edit: Wrong thread, but I'll leave it on here for a laugh. We need one tonight.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Warren and JC lamenting the missed chances.

I'm afraid that as always, they're spot on.

Edit: Wrong thread, but I'll leave it on here for a laugh. We need one tonight.

Thankfully Storm Shadows are more accurate than Joao Pedro!!

 

[Eric the meek]

Thankfully Storm Shadows are more accurate than Joao Pedro!!

I think they also cost a bit less than Pedro as well !