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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

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NooBHA

Members
Jan 13, 2015
8,438
This is incorrect - see Demographics of Crimea - Russians have only been in a majority since the turn of the 20th century, and very few lived there at the turn of the 19th. The traditional inhabitants of the peninsula are the Crimean Tatars.
Almost exactly as I said. The Russians deported the Tatars. They don't even want the Land, just the Ports.

Ukraine can't negotiate with the Russians. They have to simply say to the Crimean Population. " You decide and we will abide by it "

The word of the Russians is worthless. They signed an Agreement with the Chechyn's after the first " Invasion" there and then they broke that agreement and invaded them again. So Ukraine has to kick them out of the whole country.

Crimea is slightly different just because of the current demographic make up of the current population, so you can't force those people to live through future battles that they themselves night want to settle at the Ballot Box.
 


sparkie

Members
Jul 17, 2003
10,924
Hove
Threads from 2014 for anyone interested and with time on their hands :


 
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sparkie

Members
Jul 17, 2003
10,924
Hove
That's a big game changer.

Fired from Belarus it seems ? Poland bound to respond.

I can see the launch systems being taken out as a minimum.
 


Igzilla

Members
Sep 27, 2012
1,575
Worthing
I'd like to think it's incompetence
Irrespective of whether it's incompetence or not (it probably is), it gives NATO a huge window of opportunity to take further action, should they wish to do so. I'm sure Putin will be watching closely to see if NATO do respond (given that a NATO state has just been attacked, technically).
 

Nobby Cybergoat

Members
Jul 19, 2021
3,295
We can't know if it's deliberate or not, so what to do?

On the one hand ......

Even if entirely accidental it is an entirely predictable consequence of firing so many missiles indiscriminately, which justifies a proportionate military response.

On the other .....

Let's keep cool heads here. Is this worth an escalation over?

My view? It is worth escalating. Russia have provoked and provoked. Intent is not really the issue. The fact is they have attacked and killed people in a NATO country. I think a proportionate response is a NATO missile attack at a logistics depot in Russian territory.
 

sparkie

Members
Jul 17, 2003
10,924
Hove
We can't know if it's deliberate or not, so what to do?

On the one hand ......

Even if entirely accidental it is an entirely predictable consequence of firing so many missiles indiscriminately, which justifies a proportionate military response.

On the other .....

Let's keep cool heads here. Is this worth an escalation over?

My view? It is worth escalating. Russia have provoked and provoked. Intent is not really the issue. The fact is they have attacked and killed people in a NATO country. I think a proportionate response is a NATO missile attack at a logistics depot in Russian territory.
I agree.

Doing nothing sends Putin the signal that we are weak. It won't be the last missile "accident".

A limited response destroying the base / airfield that fired the missile in Belarus would seem appropriate to me.

Let's see what the professionals decide. It'll have been wargamed though. Not much sleep for "sleepy Joe" tonight.
 


A mex eyecan

Members
Nov 3, 2011
2,449
It’s all getting a bit eggy.

How long until WW3? And, crucially, what will China do?
China? probably making anything they see as saleable, good market now for home first aid kits, dodgy fall out suits etc. Yes i am joking’ish… but to be fair their moral compass seems about as sound as some knock off sales person loitering in the shadows, any opportunity to make a buck or million is fair game.. Just consider how many billion disposble face masks and test kits they have hawked all around the globe.
 

jcdenton08

PROD with the PROD
Oct 17, 2008
6,220
China? probably making anything they see as saleable, good market now for home first aid kits, dodgy fall out suits etc. Yes i am joking’ish… but to be fair their moral compass seems about as sound as some knock off sales person loitering in the shadows, any opportunity to make a buck or million is fair game.. Just consider how many billion disposble face masks and test kits they have hawked all around the globe.
All this is true, but as *the* key Russian ally they are the game changer in all this.
 

TomandJerry

Members
Oct 1, 2013
9,959
Gierszewski tweeted:

My sources in the services say that what hit Przewowo is most likely the remains of a rocket shot down by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
 

GT49er

Members
Feb 1, 2009
41,560
Gloucester
I agree.

Doing nothing sends Putin the signal that we are weak. It won't be the last missile "accident".

A limited response destroying the base / airfield that fired the missile in Belarus would seem appropriate to me.

Let's see what the professionals decide. It'll have been wargamed though. Not much sleep for "sleepy Joe" tonight.
Yes, if they can accurately the missile launch site, then destroy it.

Similarly, after due and specific warning, Ukraine is now entitled to destroy Russian electricity supply installations on a one-for-one basis - with pre-warning that, say, one of six targets will be destroyed, so evacuate everyone from all of them, to avoid innocent casualties - seize the moral high-ground (not that they aren't on it already).
 

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