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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

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Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
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Withdean area

sparkie

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Jul 17, 2003
10,923
Hove
Spare a thought for the recent Russian conscripts already dying, Putin’s murdering two peoples.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...d-russian-soldiers-already-returning-coffins/

Coffins containing the bodies of men conscripted by the Kremlin just last month are already being flown back to Russia from Ukraine.

Pro-war Russian bloggers said that the death of conscripts barely three weeks after Vladimir Putin ordered a mobilisation showed just how shambolic the process had been.
They're joining existing units and as "new boys" are given the most dangerous places to defend by the clued-in troops already there.
 

essbee1

Members
Jun 25, 2014
3,369
Spare a thought for the recent Russian conscripts already dying, Putin’s murdering two peoples.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...d-russian-soldiers-already-returning-coffins/

Coffins containing the bodies of men conscripted by the Kremlin just last month are already being flown back to Russia from Ukraine.

Pro-war Russian bloggers said that the death of conscripts barely three weeks after Vladimir Putin ordered a mobilisation showed just how shambolic the process had been.
Always going to be the case sadly. And from a trickle it will very soon turn into a tsunami of coffins returning home.
 

Eric the meek

New pork markets !
Aug 24, 2020
2,757
How can he offer Kherson - he just claimed it was part of Russia and would be against the constitution to ever allow it to be separated.
Who knows what goes on in Putin's mind? That's just what I understood from the video.

Besides, after all that has happened, how could Zelensky a) sign up to any negotiated settlement agreed with Putin and b) have any confidence at all that Putin would stick to it anyway?
 

Triggaaar

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Oct 24, 2005
45,494
Goldstone
Who knows what goes on in Putin's mind? That's just what I understood from the video.
Yes, I'm just pointing out the stupidity of what he may be offering/hinting at. He's about to break his own law. Who does he think he is, Boris?

Besides, after all that has happened, how could Zelensky a) sign up to any negotiated settlement agreed with Putin and b) have any confidence at all that Putin would stick to it anyway?
He couldn't. Words of peace from Pootin are either a fake gesture as a pathetic attempt to appear as reasonable, or a stalling tactic while they manufacture some weapons and train the mobilised troops. Regardless of any agreements he makes, there will never ever be a time when he won't take as much of Ukraine as he can. Ukraine's only hope of keeping their land (and indeed their identity) is to force Russia out and defend themselves in the future (ideally with the help of allies).
 

Eric the meek

New pork markets !
Aug 24, 2020
2,757
Yes, I'm just pointing out the stupidity of what he may be offering/hinting at. He's about to break his own law. Who does he think he is, Boris?


He couldn't. Words of peace from Pootin are either a fake gesture as a pathetic attempt to appear as reasonable, or a stalling tactic while they manufacture some weapons and train the mobilised troops. Regardless of any agreements he makes, there will never ever be a time when he won't take as much of Ukraine as he can. Ukraine's only hope of keeping their land (and indeed their identity) is to force Russia out and defend themselves in the future (ideally with the help of allies).
Yes, I agree with that.

That isn't to say that we should immediately dismiss all that Putin has to say and tell him to f off. (I know you're not suggesting this).
I would like to think that with some skillful diplomacy, western governments could take advantage of Putin's obvious weakness in that he's losing on the battlefield and seeking to get Ukraine/the west to lay down their weapons. Translated, that means he needs time. There are several overtures in that video, not least the one in which he apparently is offering the whole of the west 'a new deal'. That needs to be carefully examined and understood, while still making inexorable gains on the battlefield. I believe he is offering that deal, because he believes the very existence of Russia is at stake.
 

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ

South Central (Hove)
Apr 7, 2006
5,975
Brighton & Hove
a stalling tactic while they manufacture some weapons
I believe Russia lacks the resources to manufacture any advanced weapons systems - they did have some joy repurposing chips from washing machines, fridges and dishwashers recently. How advanced would a washing machine-powered weapon be, I'm no expert but I imagine they're not great! Sanctions announced a few weeks ago specifically mention those items (https://www.ft.com/content/c4930d44-9db2-40ef-9800-e52a0112aceb)

I'm sure he'll find his ways to get his hands on some microchips though, via some dodgy third party, but it will hopefully greatly reduce their manufacturing capabilities.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

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Sep 15, 2004
15,749
Hurst Green
I believe Russia lacks the resources to manufacture any advanced weapons systems - they did have some joy repurposing chips from washing machines, fridges and dishwashers recently. How advanced would a washing machine-powered weapon be, I'm no expert but I imagine they're not great! Sanctions announced a few weeks ago specifically mention those items (https://www.ft.com/content/c4930d44-9db2-40ef-9800-e52a0112aceb)

I'm sure he'll find his ways to get his hands on some microchips though, via some dodgy third party, but it will hopefully greatly reduce their manufacturing capabilities.
He’d end up being rinsed
 

Springal

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Feb 12, 2005
21,150
GOSBTS
I

I'm sure he'll find his ways to get his hands on some microchips though, via some dodgy third party, but it will hopefully greatly reduce their manufacturing capabilities.
yes - I work in tech and there has been a big focus on various companies in Russia / connected to Russia from buying products through third party organisations.

Unfortunately it’s nearly impossible to guarantee where stuff goes, but a bunch of companies have admitted they inadvertently ended up selling to sanctioned organisations since 2014 recently
 

Triggaaar

Members
Oct 24, 2005
45,494
Goldstone
That isn't to say that we should immediately dismiss all that Putin has to say and tell him to f off. (I know you're not suggesting this).
I would like to think that with some skillful diplomacy, western governments could take advantage of Putin's obvious weakness in that he's losing on the battlefield and seeking to get Ukraine/the west to lay down their weapons. Translated, that means he needs time. There are several overtures in that video, not least the one in which he apparently is offering the whole of the west 'a new deal'. That needs to be carefully examined and understood, while still making inexorable gains on the battlefield. I believe he is offering that deal, because he believes the very existence of Russia is at stake.
I agree except that I think he believes his existence is at stake, not Russia's.

If possible, I'd like the support for Ukraine to increase, so they can make further gains and put more pressure on Pootin, before he has time to train the new soldiers.
 

raymondo

Members
Apr 26, 2017
2,635
Wiltshire

What's all this?

Russia appears to be pausing its military activities and making a diplomatic push.
Does it want to be friends after all?
Has it run out of missiles?
Is it stalling for time to train its new troops?

Whatever the reason, it seems to be making several coordinated attempts at a (Russian style) charm offensive.

First the BBC reports:
'Ukraine war: Putin says no more massive strikes - for now'

From the Indian Youtube news channel Crux:

'Russia Suddenly Changes Tone On Talks Amid Ukraine War Setbacks| Putin Looking For "Peace" Or More?'


(He appears to be offering? a withdrawal from Kherson, but wants to keep Donbas. Crimea is not on the table).
This is presumably unacceptable to Ukraine, who have repeatedly ruled out negotiations.
See the statement from the Turkish government at 2:08.

I will never ever trust Putin or Lavrov ... they are stalling until delivery of Iranian missiles.
Spare a thought for the recent Russian conscripts already dying, Putin’s murdering two peoples.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...d-russian-soldiers-already-returning-coffins/

Coffins containing the bodies of men conscripted by the Kremlin just last month are already being flown back to Russia from Ukraine.

Pro-war Russian bloggers said that the death of conscripts barely three weeks after Vladimir Putin ordered a mobilisation showed just how shambolic the process had been.
Their bloggers are wrong...it actually shows how efficient the mobilisation process has been: mobilisation papers (preferably to ethnic minorities first) -> transfer to training centres -> training -> uniform and equipment supply -> despatched to battalion -> carefully placed on the dangerous frontline positions by the more senior and experienced colleagues -> killed -> bagged -> flown home. All that in just one month. Russian efficiency, astonishing.
 

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,361
Mid Sussex
I will never ever trust Putin or Lavrov ... they are stalling until delivery of Iranian missiles.

Their bloggers are wrong...it actually shows how efficient the mobilisation process has been: mobilisation papers (preferably to ethnic minorities first) -> transfer to training centres -> training -> uniform and equipment supply -> despatched to battalion -> carefully placed on the dangerous frontline positions by the more senior and experienced colleagues -> killed -> bagged -> flown home. All that in just one month. Russian efficiency, astonishing.
No it doesn’t . What it shows is the movement of untrained and ill equipped canon fodder to the front line which is a disaster. A proper mobalisation would have included at least some basic trading (6 weeks) prior to being sacrificed on the front line.
 


Igzilla

Members
Sep 27, 2012
1,575
Worthing
Thought this was a very good analysis of the threat from Belarus.
tl:dr it's a bluff, Belarus has handed over a load of tanks to Russia and the border between Belarus and Ukraine is mainly impassable marsh and Ukraine have got the only militarily useful routes secured. It would be suicide for Belarussian troops.

 

raymondo

Members
Apr 26, 2017
2,635
Wiltshire
A military commissar in charge of enlistment for Putin’s chaotic mobilisation campaign, Lt-Col Roman Malyk, 49, has been found dead in suspicious circumstances prompting murder investigation. His body was discovered near the fence of his home in the Primorsky region of Russia.

Putin's subordinates seem to have a low life expectancy.
I certainly hope they have a low life expectancy(y)(y)
 

sparkie

Members
Jul 17, 2003
10,923
Hove
So there is now a theory that Putin has sent 9000 troops to Belarus so that well connected Russians can arrange for relatives to be posted to these "safe" battalions and stay out of the war.

It wouldn't surprise me, and probably costs a fair few rubles to swing a posting to Belarus.
 

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