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[Football] Roberto vs Marco



Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
Rigidity vs pragmatism…. Turns out a pragmatic approach can reap rewards.

I said a while back that, if we ignore the hyperbole, step back etc. the reality is that Roberto is really no better than a Silva at PL level… for some reason the media have decided Roberto falls into the maverick genius category… I’m not sure it’s so to be honest.

Roberto has done a superb job, but worryingly the wheels are starting to squeak and since Christmas I’ve noted a concerning slide in body language… today, Luton, Wolves (which was pretty woeful too) embody this… we look tired, disjointed, painfully slow and that’s just clambering off the team coach… our rhythm has been greatly impacted by injury, but when the tough get going … I’m not convinced the fight snd fire is there, especially from our formerly charismatic and loveable head coach.

If Roberto is to fulfil his ambition he really needs to arrest this slide, otherwise his dream job might fail to materialise…

As for us we’d better hope a mojo transplant occurs this week, otherwise we’re going to find Rome rather hard to sack.
 








Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
Silva is a very good manager, seems to found a home at Fulham as well.
I don’t disagree - yet the hyperbole circus seems happy to dismiss him as a lesser light… it’s a bit odd … he utterly did Roberto today, or perhaps Roberto utterly did himself ?
 


Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
The fact remains that RDZ led us to our best ever season last year and even now we're only a couple of places below and this Europa run could yet match last season's FA Cup semi.

He's got the last two games badly wrong though, no doubt.
And Luton wasn’t his finest moment either…

I agree, he’s been a superb coach for the most part… but I’m not in the Roberto is a genius camp either… he’s too inflexible.
 




phoenix

Well-known member
May 18, 2009
2,605
The fact remains that RDZ led us to our best ever season last year and even now we're only a couple of places below and this Europa run could yet match last season's FA Cup semi.

He's got the last two games badly wrong though, no doubt.
So did Potter i don't rate DeZerbi he's like Bazball great when it works f***ed if it doesn't oh and by the way iv'e always thought yes hes ok but do we have a defense? Oh and iv'e always been criticized for having that opinion. But honestly i think he's ok but we won't die if he leaves.
 


macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
3,702
six feet beneath the moon...
sounds familiar….

roberto vs emery
roberto vs moyes
roberto vs edwards
roberto vs dyche

roberto is an excellent coach and has got us playing the best football i’ve ever seen us play. but against certain teams, we see the same crap again and again. surely as a coach adaptability is the best ability. RDZ simply will not change or adapt any of his principles at any point for any situation. if you have the players like man city do, to break down low blocks, then that’s okay (although even pep has adapted the system at times). however, for us, we look very predictable and one dimensional because opposition coaches have figured out what works against us and RDZ has no plan to counter that except changing the formation slightly. shuffling deckchairs on the titanic.
 
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lizard

Well-hung member
Jul 14, 2005
3,332
It's unfortunate for RDZ, nothing more. A lot of overreaction on here this evening.
You take out any team's four best players (or four of our best) in Mitoma, March, Pedro, Gilmour, and go against a good manager, away at a ground we recently seem to struggle at and it's going to be a tough ask.
I don't like the whole goalkeeping shenanigans, but RDZ is a fantastic coach and we're lucky to have him.
Silva is a great coach too, and seems well fitting for Fulham, a team whom aside from today's result I have very little against.
 




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,162
Surrey
And Luton wasn’t his finest moment either…

I agree, he’s been a superb coach for the most part… but I’m not in the Roberto is a genius camp either… he’s too inflexible.
I like the way he sets us up, but it has always needed a goal threat that doesn't rely on walking the ball into the net. Last year we had a lot of that. this time thanks to injuries (Enciso, March) and Ali Mac's sale, not so much.

I do think he's horribly naiive at times. We try to control games at the back before we're even settled, and that has cost silly goals too many times this season. Secondly, he needs to think about sitting back and watching the other team do the attacking. There's no flexibility to do that, and there needs to be. Finally, he has utterly f**ked up the last two games (and threatened our whole season) with stupid team selections. Avoidable and definitely all on him.
 


Jeremiah

God is great
Mar 15, 2020
2,160
Hove
I'm a little unsure of this debate around RDZ.

Personally I think that like most sides out of the money ladened top six we are struggling with being in Europe and the rigors of the Premier League. We just don't have a big enough or good enough squad to cope with the inevitable injuries and suspensions etc.

The Clubs limited attitude to buying players and selling our best players and the wages we offer doesn't help the manager (any manager).

I am completely against the goalkeeper rotation , which is within RDZ's control, but today he was resting players for Thursday. If we pick up a good result against Roma then this will be forgotten but I suspect we will have a similar performance against Forest a week Sunday.

I like Roberto's passion but he has been overhyped. I hope he stays and we invest in better players than some that are having to be played at the moment.
 


Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
I like the way he sets us up, but it has always needed a goal threat that doesn't rely on walking the ball into the net. Last year we had a lot of that. this time thanks to injuries (Enciso, March) and Ali Mac's sale, not so much.

I do think he's horribly naiive at times. We try to control games at the back before we're even settled, and that has cost silly goals too many times this season. Secondly, he needs to think about sitting back and watching the other team do the attacking. There's no flexibility to do that, and there needs to be. Finally, he has utterly f**ked up the last two games (and threatened our whole season) with stupid team selections. Avoidable and definitely all on him.
Yep, totally agree and the GK thing is really starting to hack me off.
 




amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,191
Sit back ,let Brighton have possesion and throw players forward. There will be many chances to take advantage to play long balls when they only have onlya few defenders.
 


chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
Oct 12, 2022
1,840
And Luton wasn’t his finest moment either…

I agree, he’s been a superb coach for the most part… but I’m not in the Roberto is a genius camp either… he’s too inflexible.

To be fair to him, we have had the worst season for injuries. It’s really tough when it doesn’t matter what system you want to play, your choices are made for you by the available personnel.

I think we’ve seen him be pretty flexible in terms of how we’ve set up, but the basics of his football don’t change, and that (for me) is where the inflexibility is.

As many other managers have found before him, you either learn the necessary degree of pragmatism, or you get used to a certain “groundhog day” type of defeat. Going behind to a low block team is still a tough watch, but if Potter can figure it out, then RDZ certainly can too.
 


Iggle Piggle

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
5,309
The problem we have is the way we play relies on everything going well. When was the last time we played shit and won? Athens away maybe. The insistence on the Centre Half's being so high up the pitch costs us time and again as we get picked off on the counter as we inevitably lose a ball high up the pitch.

As good as some performances have been I've watched the same game loads this season. Sheff utd, Burnley, Everton and Fulham all at home, West Ham away, Wolves at home and away in the cup last week are all variations of the same theme. Try and score against us, we know you will give us a chance, here, have the ball. What's that quote about insanity?
 




Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,493
I'm a little unsure of this debate around RDZ.

Personally I think that like most sides out of the money ladened top six we are struggling with being in Europe and the rigors of the Premier League. We just don't have a big enough or good enough squad to cope with the inevitable injuries and suspensions etc.

The Clubs limited attitude to buying players and selling our best players and the wages we offer doesn't help the manager (any manager).

I am completely against the goalkeeper rotation , which is within RDZ's control, but today he was resting players for Thursday. If we pick up a good result against Roma then this will be forgotten but I suspect we will have a similar performance against Forest a week Sunday.

I like Roberto's passion but he has been overhyped. I hope he stays and we invest in better players than some that are having to be played at the moment.
It's not a limited attitude, it's a sensible one.

The reason why we are here is because of that policy. Someone suggested we should have tried to keep Caicedo. How ? He wanted to play for a club that could offer him a wage we couldn't.

The only way Albion could grow further is to pay higher wages and pay higher fees. That's how it works. But that involves making loses. Why should Tony Bloom pay for our egos ?

I was thinking after the match today about how well Albion are run and how they look to the future rather than the present. That's very sensible and only frustrating for those with a belief money grows on trees.

RDZ is over-hyped. He's a decent manager at this level, but no messiah. He never was. But folk let themselves get carried away.

Albion are a third division team done good. And this may well be maintained for a long period. But only by being sensible and knowing the limits- then trying to find a way to overcome them where possible. But that doesn't involve throwing money at things.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,660
Roberto's tactics with a top 6 squad will be something to watch.

Roberto's tactics with 0 pace will fail to win 9 times out of 10.
 


tigertim68

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2012
2,317
The fact remains that RDZ led us to our best ever season last year and even now we're only a couple of places below and this Europa run could yet match last season's FA Cup semi.

He's got the last two games badly wrong though, no doubt.
We had the best midfield duo in the league, plus Mwepu and have lost all 3 of them without replacing them
that’s why we’re are no where as good as last season
 


Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
I guess on reflection, what I’m really getting at is that although this one was/is tough to take, we’re not really (given our player losses to injury/transfers out) better than Fulham, nor is Roberto a better coach than Silva… as clear as day really.

So, getting all bent out of shape is borne from believing the De Zerbi hype… step back, and we’re a small PL club punching above our weight, very similar to Fulham… and Roberto is no messiah…

The worrying thing is that he might be guilty of believing he is, and is in serious danger of losing his focus and ability to manage the squad with a degree of tactical pragmatism - as demanded by our injury situation etc. he’s not at City or Liverpool yet - with the resource depth those clubs offer.

Wake up Roberto.
 


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