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[TV] Pistol

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BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
15,035
Been looking forward to this. Danny Boyle series about the Pistols. Based on Steve Cook's Biography apparently.

I have watched the first episode and a half and although I am compelled to watched the rest I am struggling a bit.

The casting doesn't seem that great (aside from Maisy Williams as Jordan and Jojen from Game of Thrones who is good as McClaren). Steve Jones seems more like Jim Morrison and I am really struggling with Jonny Rotten. Paul Cook and Glen Matlock don't seem too bad.

It all seems a bit Baz Lehman glitzy or something, can't quite put my finger on it?

Anyone else watching?
 


zefarelly

Members
Jul 7, 2003
19,543
Sussex, by the sea
:lolol:
Not very punk

I've just listened to some of my special Jubilee punk playlist . . .no SP's on it. .bit of a manufactured pop band to my mind.

No More of that ( randy Andy remix) SLF
Bunting breakout - Sham 69
POlice and thieves - Clash
Is Phil there - Department S
Genetic inbreeding - X-Ray specs
so messed up - The Damned
 

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
15,035
I've just listened to some of my special Jubilee punk playlist . . .no SP's on it. .bit of a manufactured pop band to my mind.

No More of that ( randy Andy remix) SLF
Bunting breakout - Sham 69
POlice and thieves - Clash
Is Phil there - Department S
Genetic inbreeding - X-Ray specs
so messed up - The Damned
Care to share? I might need something when the Jubilee hits.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk
 


Pavilionaire

Members
Jul 7, 2003
29,497
I'm looking forward to this.

Having read 'England's Dreaming' by Jon Savage that gives as definitive an account of the Pistols story as any. Everything else just adds to the mythology about the Pistols and punk.
 

METALMICKY

Members
Jan 30, 2004
4,866
Personally I would give it a large swerve on two accounts. Initial reviews are pretty poor but more importantly I could never see what all the fuss about the Sex Pistols. Musically very poor and it just seems that all the emphasis is just on what they supposedly stood for or represented. Swearing on telly and wearing safety pins is pretty unimpressive. From that punk period there were many other bands with the same image and ethos but way better musicians. All they lacked was the hype and RR skills of Malcolm McClaren.

Whilst not ever wanting to be classed as punk , for me the stand out band has to be The Stranglers. All the punk attitude and propensity to get into trouble with anyone but once you stripped that away they were brilliant musicians and song writers with a unique sound.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,640
Faversham
I've just listened to some of my special Jubilee punk playlist . . .no SP's on it. .bit of a manufactured pop band to my mind.

No More of that ( randy Andy remix) SLF
Bunting breakout - Sham 69
POlice and thieves - Clash
Is Phil there - Department S
Genetic inbreeding - X-Ray specs
so messed up - The Damned

Top work.

As for the series, the whole early punk thing was completely misunderstood at the time, especially Lydon, so I wouldn't expect a more meaningful interpretation all these years later. Boyle is the right age (65) but Jones, bless him, was only in it "to get me 'ands on some birds" which he did with extreme voracity, so his take is bound to be cartoonish. I think if I watched it I would feel a little sad.

I just looked up Pamela Rooke and found that she died in April this year. RIP :nono:
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,640
Faversham
Personally I would give it a large swerve on two accounts. Initial reviews are pretty poor but more importantly I could never see what all the fuss about the Sex Pistols. Musically very poor and it just seems that all the emphasis is just on what they supposedly stood for or represented. Swearing on telly and wearing safety pins is pretty unimpressive. From that punk period there were many other bands with the same image and ethos but way better musicians. All they lacked was the hype and RR skills of Malcolm McClaren.

Whilst not ever wanting to be classed as punk , for me the stand out band has to be The Stranglers. All the punk attitude and propensity to get into trouble with anyone but once you stripped that away they were brilliant musicians and song writers with a unique sound.

Wrong.

I liked the Stranglers (although some of their stuff is unlistenable now) but they were a long way from the likes of the Damned, Eater, Jonny Moped and X-Ray Spex. Older. More musical. Hells Angels following (as those who saw them at the top rank in 77 will attest).

But the Pistols were iconic, the ones everyone wanted to see, with Lydon an endless source of clever and inspiring comment in the media. For a long time all we had from them was the Anarchy single and it was like the Lord's Prayer. The Pistols had the look, the attitude, and later a sound. They were inspirational for reasons other than the music. Well, Lydon was. Listening to him on the radio last week talking about his missus book-ended it for me. Someone I have admired for 46 years :love:
 

zefarelly

Members
Jul 7, 2003
19,543
Sussex, by the sea
Wrong.

I liked the Stranglers (although some of their stuff is unlistenable now) but they were a long way from the likes of the Damned, Eater, Jonny Moped and X-Ray Spex. Older. More musical. Hells Angels following (as those who saw them at the top rank in 77 will attest).

But the Pistols were iconic, the ones everyone wanted to see, with Lydon an endless source of clever and inspiring comment in the media. For a long time all we had from them was the Anarchy single and it was like the Lord's Prayer. The Pistols had the look, the attitude, and later a sound. They were inspirational for reasons other than the music. Well, Lydon was. Listening to him on the radio last week talking about his missus book-ended it for me. Someone I have admired for 46 years :love:

I guess you had to be there.

SP were created and driven by McLaren, who by all accounts was a right C**T ( I will take my mothers word for that as she went to Goldsmiths at the same time he was there )

I agree Lydon has talent. as a band they weren't really that bad compared to the 'average' at least until SV arrived.
 

Hamilton

Members
Jul 7, 2003
10,761
Brighton
Wrong.

I liked the Stranglers (although some of their stuff is unlistenable now) but they were a long way from the likes of the Damned, Eater, Jonny Moped and X-Ray Spex. Older. More musical. Hells Angels following (as those who saw them at the top rank in 77 will attest).

But the Pistols were iconic, the ones everyone wanted to see, with Lydon an endless source of clever and inspiring comment in the media. For a long time all we had from them was the Anarchy single and it was like the Lord's Prayer. The Pistols had the look, the attitude, and later a sound. They were inspirational for reasons other than the music. Well, Lydon was. Listening to him on the radio last week talking about his missus book-ended it for me. Someone I have admired for 46 years :love:

I disagree a little Harry.

It has been said that The Clash were the voice of punk, the Pistols the image, and The Stranglers played punk. I’ve always felt that to be true, without taking away from your fine list.

That said, while the other two bands embraced it, The Stranglers did want to move on and were then derided for turning their back on punk when they did when all along they never set out to be the poster kids.

And we haven’t even mentioned the New York Dolls.


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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,640
Faversham
I guess you had to be there.

SP were created and driven by McLaren, who by all accounts was a right C**T ( I will take my mothers word for that as she went to Goldsmiths at the same time he was there )

I agree Lydon has talent. as a band they weren't really that bad compared to the 'average' at least until SV arrived.

I always felt that Malcolm liked to pretend he had a plan and was in charge, but it was all a sham. He came across as an annoying old curly haired prat at the time, taking credit after the fact for other people's ideas. A bit like Johnson but without the charm. Westwood was an original talent though. I went to college very near Sex/Seditionaries and remember what it was like before the spikey haired out of town tourists started schepping down the Kings Road every Saturday. The people who wore the expensive clothes originally were the now famous Bromley Contingent (never to be seen out and about, except at gigs and clubs). Other people who went to gigs who made an effort with their clobber did it themselves, with modified clothing. Nobody I knew wore 'bondage' trousers (well apart from one bloke at art school who made his own clothes) - too bloody dangerous if a load of teds ambushed you, as was inclined to happen.

Bernie Rhodes was much more important in many ways than McLaren.

As someone who happened to be in a few places by luck at the time, it was insanely exciting. It totally appealed to (what I now know to be) my 'on the spectrum' brain wiring.
Outsiders? Tick.
People I don't much care for hate us? Tick.
People who could probably smash my face in actually back away with fear in their eyes? Tick.
People I really dislike go on about how it isn't real music to my enormous amusement? Tick.
Peculiar people try to get off with me? Tick. :lolol:
 

Hamilton

Members
Jul 7, 2003
10,761
Brighton
I guess you had to be there.

SP were created and driven by McLaren, who by all accounts was a right C**T ( I will take my mothers word for that as she went to Goldsmiths at the same time he was there )

I agree Lydon has talent. as a band they weren't really that bad compared to the 'average' at least until SV arrived.

I’m sure you’ve read this, but if not, I can recommend. McLaren was certainly a chancer and magpie.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/englands-dreaming/jon-savage/9780571368549


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Cheeky Monkey

Members
Jul 17, 2003
22,405
Stick with The Public Image is Rotten, currently on Freeve/IMDb I believe. I can't imagine any actor portraying Lydon could be anything but laughable pantomime. That said, I might give it a whirl.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,640
Faversham
I disagree a little Harry.

It has been said that The Clash were the voice of punk, the Pistols the image, and The Stranglers played punk. I’ve always felt that to be true, without taking away from your fine list.

That said, while the other two bands embraced it, The Stranglers did want to move on and were then derided for turning their back on punk when they did when all along they never set out to be the poster kids.

And we haven’t even mentioned the New York Dolls.


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Is that your experience from the time (not sure whether you're as ancient as me) or perspective via the retrospectroscope?

Well.....The Clash appears one fine day in Bernie Rhodes clobber, all art school on speed. Before that John 'Woody' Mellor played pick and shovel guitar with the 101'rs (incidentally I once worked with a bloke who was at Newport art school with him and played with him in The Vultures :eek:). Strummer was a massive shagger and all that politicing was a bit false in my eye. I saw them late in Brighton and they were fun, and I liked them more than the pistols in many respects. I have the first album on vinyl with the cover signed by Strummer (long story).

The pistols, well they were more than image but the misic was all Jones and Matlock. Great guitar pop. Plus the subversive voice of Lydon. But they couldn't get gigs after a very short while. I never saw them live.

The Strangles had nothing to do with punk, really. Older blokes, innit. Sounded like The Doors. Anyone aged over 21 in '76 was on thin ice when it came to punk credibility. Strummer, even, was.....old. I loved the first Stranglers LP. Couldn't listen to it now - mysogenistic old bollocks, or soppy silliness, a lot of it. Two old pals of mine (both mixed race, women) saw them at the Buccanneer in around 76/7 and were not impressed with 'feel like a wog' or the way the audience responded to it and to them. Furtive. I know it wasn't meant to be.....but anyway.

I own probably every British punk single released between 75 and 79. I know all the stories about the imprtance of the MC5, the Stooges, The Ramones, the Count Five, The NY Dolls, but for me pure British punk and its pure British associated acts (wierdos in the main), before some of them morphed onto something else, was something else. The Adverts, X-Ray Spex, Wire (!), Doctors of Madness, Eddie and the Hotrods, Siouxie, Subway Sect, Chelsea, The Soft Boys, Sham 69, The Damned and from Brighton Wrist Action (I loved the Piranhas and have seen them countless times but they weren't subversive).

Actually, punk was lots of different things. By 1978 me and my pals would never have called outselves 'punk', dressed very much down (just a bit of eye liner) and were interested simply in anything peculiar: The Residents, Beefhart (he made some great records in the late 70s), tons of dub reggae, the new post rock sounds of the Comsat Angels, The Cure, XTC. . . . no American shit, no American 'punk'; the first bit of American music I could tolerate after Iggy, and The Tubes, was Tuxedomoon (who I still love) and Wall of Voodoo. Funny old world.

By 1980 it was getting all glammy again, and since then, in my view, the musical tribes have been irrelevant. If you like it, enjoy it. :thumbsup:
 

Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
You really had to be there. Although I wasn't, being a snotty nosed 16 year old in the sticks in 1977 and highly distainful of the whole thing. I was very wrong.

Punk was like a sudden shotgun blast to the head of a very stuffy and staid society and establishment - music and generally. It has been much exaggerated over time, but then the shock was enormous. The Sex Pistols were central to it as far as the general public were concerned (whether they actually were or not is another issue). There were better bands, but none with the same shock and awe impact, hyped up by an ever hysterical press coverage. The Grundy interview made them famous to everyone (even my parents who hated pop music), although I didn't see it at the time (we rarely watched ITV then). Without the Pistols, punk would probably have withered as a niche movement and much of the subsequent music of the late 1970s and early 1980s onwards probably wouldn't have happened.

It is easy to be cynical looking back, but at the time they were seismic.

A different world back then.
 

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