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[Politics] Liz Truss **RESIGNS 20/10/2022**

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US Seagull

Members
Jul 17, 2003
1,507
Cleveland, OH
When Boris stepped down (was pushed), there was some commentary that he didn't really accept it and he expected to be back. At the time I thought it was totally delusional madness.

But today, I absolutely wouldn't bet against them sticking that fuckwit Boris back in number 10. It may turn out, despite he's buffoon act, he is playing 5D political chess here. Just a shame he couldn't put that skill towards making things better rather than just holding power for the sake of holding power.
 

Half Time Pies

Members
Sep 7, 2003
1,297
Brighton
This thread has it right imo. Their cabal have been planning this for years.


This is absolutely the case, I had the misfortune years ago of coming in to contact with some of the libertarian nutcases in UKIP as well as meeting the likes of Steve Baker. It was the main reason why I voted remain because I could see that leaving the EU was nothing but a trojan horse that would create the circumstances to enable them to push through their ideological agenda. The genius of it was that they managed to convince the northern working class that they were on their side whilst hiding their unpalatable political views like wanting to privatise the NHS.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
33,645
This thread has it right imo. Their cabal have been planning this for years.


its fun and plausible for a conspriacy. they must be disappointed that at the moment of triumph they spaffed it all too early, rushing to an uncosted budget without having time to push through any deregulation or real change.
 

Guinness Boy

“Self appointed racist finder general”
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,757
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
This is absolutely the case, I had the misfortune years ago of coming in to contact with some of the libertarian nutcases in UKIP as well as meeting the likes of Steve Baker. It was the main reason why I voted remain because I could see that leaving the EU was nothing but a trojan horse that would create the circumstances to enable them to push through their ideological agenda. The genius of it was that they managed to convince the northern working class that they were on their side whilst hiding their unpalatable political views like wanting to privatise the NHS.
Yep. I used to work with someone who’d previously been senior in one of Aaron Banks’ businesses. The guy was a snake who then moved on to set up a business that cold called old ladies and ended up failing with huge debts. I started looking for another job the day after he told me all this in a pub.

I posted some of this on the Brexit thread early on. Unfortunately to be met with “what about muh democracy / free speech/ immigration/ experts”
 


BenGarfield

Members
Feb 22, 2019
263
crawley
Yes the MMT stuff is completely off topic but theres obviously a lot of interest in it, even from people who seem to have a extreme aversion to the very idea! For those that are interested I will leave this here: a technical analysis of UK government spending from researchers at the University College London, which proves that the commonly claimed idea that the UK Government has no agency to create money and must instead obtain funding from taxpayers or lenders is fundamentally not true!

Of course don’t agree that it’s completely off topic as an MMT understanding informs the discussion on what the alternatives are to the clusterfuck but I will read this with interest
 

Half Time Pies

Members
Sep 7, 2003
1,297
Brighton
Yep. I used to work with someone who’d previously been senior in one of Aaron Banks’ businesses. The guy was a snake who then moved on to set up a business that cold called old ladies and ended up failing with huge debts. I started looking for another job the day after he told me all this in a pub.

I posted some of this on the Brexit thread early on. Unfortunately to be met with “what about muh democracy / free speech/ immigration/ experts”
Absolutely loons with zero credibility! I was introduced to the the UKIP 'expert' on the environment in a pub in Westminster. After a few pints he admitted to me that he had no formal qualifications and was a climate change denier!
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
33,645
Im not going to go back and forth with you over this issue because you only hear what you want to hear and translate it to something that supports your narrative, you keep moving discussion anywhere that you can (other economic systems, systems historically etc, all of which is irrelevant) rather than looking at the current UK economic system and seeing whether the model fits.

Im also not going to post anymore about it because the back and forth is clearly (and understandably) annoying others on this thread.

Ive posted a paper which lays it all out in Black and White, from one of the top universities in the UK. If you are interested in MMT then why don't you read it properly instead of persisting in trying to argue about something that you clearly don't understand.
and you only hear what you want to support MMT! i actually found what i read of the paper interesting. i didnt disagree either, just highlighting a very obvious consequence of its main proposition. i'd have expected some logical rebutal or evidence, but alas not.

this is the main objection to MMT, it only works if you disregard all evidence of other monetary policy and theory. its not a model of how things are, its a model of how some suggest it should be. if they sold it as such it would stand up a lot better. since we wont agree, and BenGarfield wont engage, agree its best to leave it.

elsewhere, bonds yields have remained down during the day.
 
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Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,293
Uckfield
and you only hear what you want to support MMT! i actually found what i read of the paper interesting. i didnt disagree with it either, just highlighting a very obvious consequence of its main proposition. this is the main objection to MMT, it only works if you disregard all evidence of other monetary policy and theory. its not a model of how things are, its a model of how some would like it to be. if they sold it as such it would stand up a lot better.
I've not done a huge amount of reading on it myself as yet (something I might remedy). But the small amount of reading I have done has led me to this conclusion so far: MMT as a theory has merit, however, that merit will only be realised if MMT can be implemented in a world where the majority view is that it's the correct approach, and even then only with very careful balancing act to ensure that you don't create hyperinflation. It carries massive downside risks of a failed implementation that may mean it never reaches that critical mass of proponents that makes it implementable without being instantly rejected by the financial markets.

Problem for MMT is that it's still fringe. Maybe it is the right way to go. Maybe it isn't. Not sure we'll find out any time soon, though, as the financial markets simply aren't ready for anyone to go down that road.
 

Stato

Members
Dec 21, 2011
5,371
It seems ironic that Cameron's promise of a referendum on EU membership, that was orignally included in the Conservative Party's manifesto in order to placate those on the right wing has finally resulted in that right wing taking control of the Conservative Party and driving it off a cliff. To save the Conservative Party, it was necessary to destroy it.

There is a lesson here for the BBC. These people will not be comprimised with. They want absolute power. Give them an inch and they'll take not just a mile, they'll take everything.

If they nagged you so much that you should lend them your car that you finally relented, they would immediately proceed to run it into the ground, strip it for parts and, after leaving it a burnt out wreck in a lay-by, they would offer you a deal on a new car from their friend's multi-national, a car that would cost you twice as much, break down constantly and could only be repaired, at great expense, at a garage that they'd be being paid a commission from.
 

BenGarfield

Members
Feb 22, 2019
263
crawley
and you only hear what you want to support MMT! i actually found what i read of the paper interesting. i didnt disagree either, just highlighting a very obvious consequence of its main proposition. i'd have expected some logical rebutal or evidence, but alas not.

this is the main objection to MMT, it only works if you disregard all evidence of other monetary policy and theory. its not a model of how things are, its a model of how some would like it to be. if they sold it as such it would stand up a lot better. since we wont agree, and BenGarfield wont engage, agree its best to leave it.

elsewhere, bonds yields have remained down during the day.
At the risk of persisting with this severely off topic discussion - not just me then. Have you read the excellent Accouning Model of the Uk Treasury published by GIMMS? I found it a bit hard going as the details are in accountancy terminology but the summary is excellent?
 

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