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[News] Letter to the Police - Important Please read



Live by the sea

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2016
4,718
Please see below the letter from the UK Home Secretary to the Chief Constables .

Whatever your views on the current crisis in Israel; what is undisputed is that Hamas is a prescribed terrorist group in its entirety here in the UK , in USA as well as numerous other countries in Europe & beyond .

Please read below what people in this country are NOT allowed to do & if they do they can be committing a criminal offence .

Particularly I draw your attention to either inviting support for Hamas or expressing support for Hamas in a reckless manner that would encourage others to support .

If anyone were to post anything on NSC that breaches the guidelines listed in the letter below , then you can be reported to the police for potentially committing a criminal offence ( your contact info would be requested via the owner and main administrator of this message board )

I thought it important that everyone in NSC was made aware .

If someone gets a criminal record this can have an impact on many things including your job .



Chief Constables England and Wales
Copied to Police and Crime Commissioners England and Wales

10 October 2023
Dear all,
You will be aware of, and no doubt share my disgust at, the barbaric terrorist attacks we’ve seen committed against Israel in recent days. Sadly, experience indicates that whenever Israel is attacked, Islamists and other racists, seek to use legitimate Israeli defensive measures as a pretext to stir up hatred against British Jews and increase fear within the Jewish community. In the past, this has included vandalism of Jewish businesses, desecration of memorials and religious sites, physical and verbal abuse of Jews on the streets, convoys driving through Jewish neighbourhoods hurling antisemitic abuse, and proliferation of antisemitism online. There is an obvious risk that this pattern will be repeated during the current conflict.
I am aware that a number of police forces, working in close coordination with the Community Security Trust (CST) and other Jewish communal bodies, have already taken operational measures to strengthen the security of Jewish communities, including through increased patrols in neighbourhoods with large Jewish populations.
I know that increased visibility of patrols, as well as a swift and zero tolerance approach to antisemitism, will provide our Jewish communities with reassurance that the police are taking this threat seriously and will be there to protect them if need be.
As you know, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK in its entirety. It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:
  • belong to Hamas
  • invite support for Hamas
  • express support for Hamas whilst being reckless as to whether the expression will encourage support of it
  • arrange a meeting in support of Hamas
  • wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
  • publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances
At a time when Hamas terrorists are massacring civilians and taking the most vulnerable (including the elderly, women, and children) hostage, we can all recognise the harrowing effect that displays of their logos and flags can have on communities. I therefore ask that your police forces are alert and ready to respond to any potential offences.
Of course, it is not just explicit pro-Hamas symbols and chants that are cause for concern. I would encourage police to consider whether chants such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” should be understood as an expression of a violent desire to see Israel erased from the world, and whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.
I would encourage police to give similar consideration to the presence of symbols such as swastikas at anti-Israel demonstrations. Context is crucial. Behaviours that are legitimate in some circumstances, for example the waving of a Palestinian flag, may not be legitimate such as when intended to glorify acts of terrorism. Nor is it acceptable to drive through Jewish neighbourhoods, or single out Jewish members of the public, to aggressively chant or wave pro-Palestinian symbols at. Where harassment is identified, I would encourage the police to take swift and appropriate enforcement action.
I encourage all Chief Officers to ensure that any protests which could exacerbate community tensions by way of offensive placards, chants, or behaviours that could be construed as incitement or harassment, have a strong police presence to ensure perpetrators are appropriately dealt with, and that communities feel protected. Decisions on arrests are rightly an operational matter for the police, in line with the duty to keep the peace, to protect communities, and to prevent the commission of offences. However, I would urge you to ensure your forces use all available powers to prevent disorder and distress to our communities, and that your officers will act if there are any incidents that stray into criminality.
I have also been absolutely clear that online offending is as serious as offline offending. You will be aware that we have robust legislation in place to deal with terrorist content online, as well as threatening and abusive behaviour or behaviour which is intended or likely to stir up hatred. I urge you to ensure that this continues to be taken into consideration in the upcoming days and that any reports of online offending are dealt with promptly.
I expect online referral units to respond swiftly to any content that breaks the law. In particular, I expect the CT Internet Referral Unit to monitor the situation and respond quickly to any online content that breaches the thresholds for terrorism legislation (TACT), working with tech companies to ensure its removal. I similarly expect the Online Hate Crime Hub to respond to any reports of online content that contravenes hate crime legislation to ensure the perpetrators can be brought to justice.
There can be no place for antisemitism or glorification of terrorism on the streets of Britain. I therefore expect the police to use the full force of the law against displays of support for Hamas, other proscribed terrorist groups or attempts to harass and intimidate British Jews.
Ensuring that there are heavy criminal consequences for any perpetrators is the best way to deter future offending and ensure the confidence and safety of our Jewish communities.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP
 

Horses Arse

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2004
4,571
here and there
I get the babaric terrosist attacks description of recent events but am confused at the silence over everything leading up to this.

Probably best therefore to stick my head in the sand like everyone else I guess. Over and out on this one given the messaging in that letter from the bigot Braverman
 

RandyWanger

Je suis rôti de boeuf
Mar 14, 2013
5,954
Done a Frexit, now in London
It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:
  • wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
  • publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances

Are they classing 'Free Palestine' or the Palestine flag as support of Hamas instead of support of the people in Palestine who have lived through 70 years of occupation?
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,876
The arse end of Hangleton
Good grief !!!! The other thread, which you've a number of times stated you would not longer respond on but did, isn't enough for you ?

So we all know and recognise Hamas as a terrorist organisation. I don't think anyone on here has shown any support for what Hamas has done or for the organisation themselves - some of us do understand how actions by the US, British and Israel got the world to this point though. So nobody has broken UK law. Equally, many of us recognise the Israeli government as a terrorist organisation. It would be nice if UK law deemed them so as well so their supporters could be breaking the law.
 

BNthree

Plastic JCL
Sep 14, 2016
10,660
WeHo
Are they classing 'Free Palestine' or the Palestine flag as support of Hamas instead of support of the people in Palestine who have lived through 70 years of occupation?

Thankfully the Hamas flag is different to the Palestinian flag so showing support for the civilians of Palestine isn't the same as supporting Hamas.
 

Mental Lental

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,271
Shiki-shi, Saitama
Please see below the letter from the UK Home Secretary to the Chief Constables .

Whatever your views on the current crisis in Israel; what is undisputed is that Hamas is a prescribed terrorist group in its entirety here in the UK , in USA as well as numerous other countries in Europe & beyond .

Please read below what people in this country are NOT allowed to do & if they do they can be committing a criminal offence .

Particularly I draw your attention to either inviting support for Hamas or expressing support for Hamas in a reckless manner that would encourage others to support .

If anyone were to post anything on NSC that breaches the guidelines listed in the letter below , then you can be reported to the police for potentially committing a criminal offence ( your contact info would be requested via the owner and main administrator of this message board )

I thought it important that everyone in NSC was made aware .

If someone gets a criminal record this can have an impact on many things including your job .



Chief Constables England and Wales
Copied to Police and Crime Commissioners England and Wales

10 October 2023
Dear all,
You will be aware of, and no doubt share my disgust at, the barbaric terrorist attacks we’ve seen committed against Israel in recent days. Sadly, experience indicates that whenever Israel is attacked, Islamists and other racists, seek to use legitimate Israeli defensive measures as a pretext to stir up hatred against British Jews and increase fear within the Jewish community. In the past, this has included vandalism of Jewish businesses, desecration of memorials and religious sites, physical and verbal abuse of Jews on the streets, convoys driving through Jewish neighbourhoods hurling antisemitic abuse, and proliferation of antisemitism online. There is an obvious risk that this pattern will be repeated during the current conflict.
I am aware that a number of police forces, working in close coordination with the Community Security Trust (CST) and other Jewish communal bodies, have already taken operational measures to strengthen the security of Jewish communities, including through increased patrols in neighbourhoods with large Jewish populations.
I know that increased visibility of patrols, as well as a swift and zero tolerance approach to antisemitism, will provide our Jewish communities with reassurance that the police are taking this threat seriously and will be there to protect them if need be.
As you know, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK in its entirety. It is therefore a criminal offence for a person in the UK to:
  • belong to Hamas
  • invite support for Hamas
  • express support for Hamas whilst being reckless as to whether the expression will encourage support of it
  • arrange a meeting in support of Hamas
  • wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of Hamas or
  • publish an image of an article such as a flag or logo in the same circumstances
At a time when Hamas terrorists are massacring civilians and taking the most vulnerable (including the elderly, women, and children) hostage, we can all recognise the harrowing effect that displays of their logos and flags can have on communities. I therefore ask that your police forces are alert and ready to respond to any potential offences.
Of course, it is not just explicit pro-Hamas symbols and chants that are cause for concern. I would encourage police to consider whether chants such as “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” should be understood as an expression of a violent desire to see Israel erased from the world, and whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.
I would encourage police to give similar consideration to the presence of symbols such as swastikas at anti-Israel demonstrations. Context is crucial. Behaviours that are legitimate in some circumstances, for example the waving of a Palestinian flag, may not be legitimate such as when intended to glorify acts of terrorism. Nor is it acceptable to drive through Jewish neighbourhoods, or single out Jewish members of the public, to aggressively chant or wave pro-Palestinian symbols at. Where harassment is identified, I would encourage the police to take swift and appropriate enforcement action.
I encourage all Chief Officers to ensure that any protests which could exacerbate community tensions by way of offensive placards, chants, or behaviours that could be construed as incitement or harassment, have a strong police presence to ensure perpetrators are appropriately dealt with, and that communities feel protected. Decisions on arrests are rightly an operational matter for the police, in line with the duty to keep the peace, to protect communities, and to prevent the commission of offences. However, I would urge you to ensure your forces use all available powers to prevent disorder and distress to our communities, and that your officers will act if there are any incidents that stray into criminality.
I have also been absolutely clear that online offending is as serious as offline offending. You will be aware that we have robust legislation in place to deal with terrorist content online, as well as threatening and abusive behaviour or behaviour which is intended or likely to stir up hatred. I urge you to ensure that this continues to be taken into consideration in the upcoming days and that any reports of online offending are dealt with promptly.
I expect online referral units to respond swiftly to any content that breaks the law. In particular, I expect the CT Internet Referral Unit to monitor the situation and respond quickly to any online content that breaches the thresholds for terrorism legislation (TACT), working with tech companies to ensure its removal. I similarly expect the Online Hate Crime Hub to respond to any reports of online content that contravenes hate crime legislation to ensure the perpetrators can be brought to justice.
There can be no place for antisemitism or glorification of terrorism on the streets of Britain. I therefore expect the police to use the full force of the law against displays of support for Hamas, other proscribed terrorist groups or attempts to harass and intimidate British Jews.
Ensuring that there are heavy criminal consequences for any perpetrators is the best way to deter future offending and ensure the confidence and safety of our Jewish communities.
Yours sincerely,
Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP
The level of literacy in this is horrific. This cannot be an official government statement surely?

edit: Nope sorry after re-reading this I just cannot believe this was written by a native English speaker operating at the highest level of the UK government.

Are we sure this is real and not just from a Russian troll farm?

edit 2: f*** me it IS real....


Actually it looks better on the official government page. I think in his fervent, rabid desire to copy and paste this on to NSC as QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, the OP forgot to include the original formatting.
 
Last edited:


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,876
The arse end of Hangleton
Are they classing 'Free Palestine' or the Palestine flag as support of Hamas instead of support of the people in Palestine who have lived through 70 years of occupation?
Quite. Two entirely different things ! Something @Live by the sea doesn't seem to grasp. But he is American so we need to give him some slack.
 

Bombardier

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 22, 2004
754
Hove actually
Good grief !!!! The other thread, which you've a number of times stated you would not longer respond on but did, isn't enough for you ?

So we all know and recognise Hamas as a terrorist organisation. I don't think anyone on here has shown any support for what Hamas has done or for the organisation themselves - some of us do understand how actions by the US, British and Israel got the world to this point though. So nobody has broken UK law. Equally, many of us recognise the Israeli government as a terrorist organisation. It would be nice if UK law deemed them so as well so their supporters could be breaking the law.
Israel government a terrorist organisation?
 

1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,185
I've reported this thread to the mods. The OP knows full well what s/he is trying to achieve here.
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
60,711
Chandlers Ford
I've reported this thread to the mods. The OP knows full well what s/he is trying to achieve here.
Whilst your take may well be spot on, I think the Home Secretary's letter actually is worth highlighting (whatever you or I may think of her).

And to whoever chastised the OP for starting a new thread for it, rather than posting on the main Israel thread - he can't - he's thread banned from it.
 

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,876
The arse end of Hangleton
And to whoever chastised the OP for starting a new thread for it, rather than posting on the main Israel thread - he can't - he's thread banned from it.

That was me, and I didn't realise he'd been banned from the other thread ( although it seems a reasonable ban given he kept asking to be banned ! ).
 


Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2022
4,494
I think the Home Secretary's letter actually is worth highlighting (whatever you or I may think of her).
Yes, certainly a temperature reading of current racial tension (or anticipated racial tension)
Whilst your take may well be spot on

It was 👍

But it’s good to know nevertheless that if, in the course of in my ramblings on NSC, that if I tread too close to the (apparently unclear) line , that divides me from being a vociferous supporter of the Palestine people and their right to be free of oppression to inciting racial hatred and supporting terrorism, I am comforted in the knowledge that if the Mods are remiss in reporting me to the police, then we can rely on the OP to pick up the slack.
 
Last edited:

1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,185
Whilst your take may well be spot on, I think the Home Secretary's letter actually is worth highlighting (whatever you or I may think of her).

And to whoever chastised the OP for starting a new thread for it, rather than posting on the main Israel thread - he can't - he's thread banned from it.
Fair point. Thanks for responding. The letter is worth highlighting in regards to the threat we currently face in this country from those governing us.

I only hope the OP isn't allowed to escalate the thread as a means of by passing their ban from the other thread.
 

Lenny Rider

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
5,315
What does Gorgeous Geroge Galloway make of it all?

Waiting for him to pop up on my TV screen at some point.......
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cjd

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
60,711
Chandlers Ford
Fair point. Thanks for responding. The letter is worth highlighting in regards to the threat we currently face in this country from those governing us.

That was my reaction also.

I only hope the OP isn't allowed to escalate the thread as a means of by passing their ban from the other thread.
If anyone thread banned from the other thread, brings here the tone or aggression that prompted those bans, they would be risking a full site ban, very quickly.
 


Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,239
Back in Sussex
Fair point. Thanks for responding. The letter is worth highlighting in regards to the threat we currently face in this country from those governing us.

I only hope the OP isn't allowed to escalate the thread as a means of by passing their ban from the other thread.
I'm going to take the slightly unusual step of saying this publicly, but there are a handful of NSCers who are very much on my watch list at the moment...

Those who seek to constantly test where the line of acceptability is, may well find that the line moves towards them and they find themselves the wrong side of it very quickly.

Additionally, where I feel someone is repeatedly posting provocatively, only to feign ignorance when called out, will also not last much longer on here.

In both scenarios, there will be no additional warnings given.
 

Colonel Mustard

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2023
1,853
The level of literacy in this is horrific. This cannot be an official government statement surely?

edit: Nope sorry after re-reading this I just cannot believe this was written by a native English speaker operating at the highest level of the UK government.

Are we sure this is real and not just from a Russian troll farm?

edit 2: f*** me it IS real....


Actually it looks better on the official government page. I think in his fervent, rabid desire to copy and paste this on to NSC as QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, the OP forgot to include the original formatting.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing but what in particular is distressing for you? I skimmed through it and thought it the usual civil-service-style officialise but didn't notice it being particularly illiterate.
 

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