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[Misc] JFK Assassination 59 years on

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A mex eyecan

Members
Nov 3, 2011
2,449
‘Swanie ’ is a conspiracy, he doesn’t really exist. He/It was invented by Graham Potter just before he went to BHAFC as their manager. It’s purpose was to give a platform to be seen as an independent voice to tell all GPs critics just how brilliant he really was and that anyone who disagreed, even in the slightest, was talking rubbish. Usually these retorts were combined with some sort of insult …

I‘m sure in a few years this will be proven to be the case. As a warning, should anyone try and prove the Swanie does exist remember that they are lying and the evidence they use will be false and or faked.
 

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,361
Mid Sussex
Kaysing is not my conspiracy theory guru - Huxley is. Huxley in combination with living in a country which is entirely in the possession of one of the biggest spiders in the global web.

He probably sold a lot of books yes. I suppose your all about the money-claim can be made about anyone selling lots of books, or doing something else for a living, then.
Kaysing was a technical author. It's a skilled job but wouldn’t give Kaysing the insight or knowledge to ascertain failure in rocket or lunar module/lander design. He had a degree in English and wrote documents so that equipment could operated. This encompasses user guides and maintenance manuals. The technical detail is provided by engineers, who’s written English can be rather suspect (evidenced by the quality of some of my posts), and the Technical Author effectively translates the into English. It’s not a simple job but it wouldn’t give insight into design flaws.

in summary he was talking bollocks.
 

Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
21,319
Sweden
No.

On reflection, I think he was a disgruntled employee at Rocketdyne and perhaps wrote his first conspiracy theory out of spite. I think that American instinct of money soon kicked in after he got some interest and his shit-4-money scheme took off. This is an interesting read but way too mainstream for you:

With conspiracy theory nut Trump taking the President role in the U.S, you’d think he’d have proved many conspiracy theories right as he rifled through the top secret service archives in his Mar-a-Lago holiday resort but all he achieved was making the U.S admit that it can’t explain about 3% of UAPs and are not ruling our extra terrestrials. There was no Roswell landing, no Alien abductions, no U.S collusion with E.T.

But Trump did change one thing about conspiracy theorists, he changed their image. No longer nerdy paranoid teenagers but fat thick-as-shit, racist redneck Americans who take their information from anyone off the Internet rather than academics. The Maga tribe. These ****ers will believe anything. The big conspiracy in America is that their last election was a fraud. That has enormous consequences.

We know you’re better than that though. Conspiracy theories are meant to make people hateful, angry, nervous and paranoid but it seems they make you very happy. If that is the case, you are on the righteous path my son.
Donald Trump is not a "conspiracy nut", he's part of the conspiracy. Misleading millions of people on to the wrong path.

Most conspiracy theorists used to be leftist people with pro-democracy attitudes.

False information, demagogues and shills changed that. Most conspiracy theorists are now, as you say, thick, racist rednecks. Most Americans, and a lot elsewhere today, believe that there is a communist/Marxist conspiracy... which is dead wrong. The conspiracy, the big one, is to create totalitarian fascism.

Donald Trump soaked up many, many millions of people who question the current direction of society. By listening to him, they're now on the wrong path, the path to oblivion. "Centrists" and "the academic left" were turned around decades ago: the average man today is a pro-fascist, pro-totalitarian person, whether they know it or not. Donald Trump was and is a tool to further synchronize this desire.
 

BenGarfield

Members
Feb 22, 2019
263
crawley
There’s a big difference between something real but was shrouded in secrecy for valid security purposes while the World was at war and something that was was not shrouded in secrecy but was overwhelmingly and universally accepted as happened based on evidence and global witnesses. It’s utterly illogical to use the former to add weight to a charge of conspiracy against the latter!
I don’t think the moon landings were faked but I still think it feasible that large numbers of key staff could be under contract to maintain total secrecy in perpetuity. Bletchley was an example albeit for only thirty years-but why that long if the war ended in 1945. I don’t recall any info on Bletchley leaking out before the mid seventies
 

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
28,320
Hove
I don’t think the moon landings were faked but I still think it feasible that large numbers of key staff could be under contract to maintain total secrecy in perpetuity. Bletchley was an example albeit for only thirty years-but why that long if the war ended in 1945. I don’t recall any info on Bletchley leaking out before the mid seventies
Bletchley Park was a secret. It's not that difficult to keep a secret that's a secret and meant to be a secret.

Televising landing on the moon, broadcasting to the entire would you have landed on the moon, parading the astronauts, moon rock samples and the like, lying to the entire world while it all happened in some hanger in the middle of Arizona or somewhere, that is an entirely different proposition as a secret. There 2 aren't really comparable.
 

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
Oct 20, 2022
1,530
Bletchley was an example albeit for only thirty years-but why that long if the war ended in 1945. I don’t recall any info on Bletchley leaking out before the mid seventies
The 30 year rule - documents can be released 30 years after they were created ( unless exempt for security reasons - it’s now 20yrs I think) - All the intelligence work at Bletchley (designated as Ultra) was subject to the Classified Information system under the control of the Cabinet Office and various laws including The Official Secrets Act.

The work on Enigma carried out by Turin and others continued and was more broadly applied after the War and the Brits were reading traffic from at least a dozen nominally friendly countries by then. We were also heading straight into a Cold War with Russia in the late 40s to early 60s (including the Cuba Missile Crisis) - releasing what had been going on at Bletchley would have been deemed contrary to our national security interests much before the 70s - If it hadn’t been for the coming out of a polish book by M16 member, Winterbotham The Ultra Secret, 1974, describing how Britain had used the intelligence got from Enigma sources - it could have taken even longer for Bletchley Park to come to light.
 


The Clamp

Members
Jan 11, 2016
21,154
West is BEST
It’s notable that those who have achieved very little in life think that other people’s achievements are a lie and couldn’t possibly have happened.
 

The Clamp

Members
Jan 11, 2016
21,154
West is BEST
Donald Trump is not a "conspiracy nut", he's part of the conspiracy. Misleading millions of people on to the wrong path.

Most conspiracy theorists used to be leftist people with pro-democracy attitudes.

False information, demagogues and shills changed that. Most conspiracy theorists are now, as you say, thick, racist rednecks. Most Americans, and a lot elsewhere today, believe that there is a communist/Marxist conspiracy... which is dead wrong. The conspiracy, the big one, is to create totalitarian fascism.

Donald Trump soaked up many, many millions of people who question the current direction of society. By listening to him, they're now on the wrong path, the path to oblivion. "Centrists" and "the academic left" were turned around decades ago: the average man today is a pro-fascist, pro-totalitarian person, whether they know it or not. Donald Trump was and is a tool to further synchronize this desire.
 

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Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
Oct 20, 2022
1,530
It’s notable that those who have achieved very little in life think that other people’s achievements are a lie and couldn’t possibly have happened.
I think that could be applied to Trump’s political ambitions too - perhaps explains his fixation on election fraud/theft conspiracies, his ‘birtherism’ accusations spreading conspiracies that Obama was born outside the US, that America was being invaded by Mexican rapists, drug dealers and murderers on a grand scale, orchestrated by the Mexican Government etc

Usually conspiracies tend to be generated by the least powerful about the most powerful - Trump became a very dangerous proposition for President when he started targeting vulnerable groups in society with his conspiratorial nonsense.
 
I don’t think the moon landings were faked but I still think it feasible that large numbers of key staff could be under contract to maintain total secrecy in perpetuity. Bletchley was an example albeit for only thirty years-but why that long if the war ended in 1945. I don’t recall any info on Bletchley leaking out before the mid seventies
That applied to people who worked there, who could be imprisoned for breaking the Official Secrets Act. It was a matter of life and death at the time.

As I said previously, the lunar buggy can still be seen on the moon, by the satellite tracker at Parkes Astronomy site in Australia. Other paraphernalia left behind by the Americans is still there. There is no oxygen for it to rot.
The Russians offered to help with the rescue of Apollo 13.

They aren’t bound by any American legislation on secrecy.
 
Jan 3, 2012
14,945
That applied to people who worked there, who could be imprisoned for breaking the Official Secrets Act. It was a matter of life and death at the time.

As I said previously, the lunar buggy can still be seen on the moon, by the satellite tracker at Parkes Astronomy site in Australia. Other paraphernalia left behind by the Americans is still there. There is no oxygen for it to rot.
The Russians offered to help with the rescue of Apollo 13.

They aren’t bound by any American legislation on secrecy.
My dad was in the signals during the war - a radio operator and a very good one according to his war records. it was only when getting his war records and seeing he was based at Rothamsted in Harpenden for two years plus, and then going to Bletchley Park and finding out about the whole thing that we put 2 and 2 together and realised what he was doing. He never talked about it. He talked about the war in general - driving in to Cologne with the city being two piles of rubble on the sides of the road, for example, cutting down bodies of Germans who had been hung by other Germans in Berlin after the end of the war, but never Rothamsted, which was a major listening station.
 

niknokseagull

Give us a biscuit
Oct 8, 2003
88
London
Back to the original topic, I was lucky enough to go to Dallas once for work. Took an early morning detour to Dealey Plaza, with barely another soul around, and stood on the plinth that Mr Zapruder filmed from, and then walked behind the fence atop the grassy knoll.
While I don’t doubt my own ability to post-rastionalise, they say you can feel the weight of history and I certainly did. Even I could have taken that shot from the grassy knoll. It would have been an open goal.
And that’s not to say Harvey-Oswald wasn’t also having a pop from the window.
Anyway, my point is that it’s well worth a visit and can be found today exactly as it was on that day.
 

Hugo Rune

Members
Feb 23, 2012
18,048
Brighton
Back to the original topic, I was lucky enough to go to Dallas once for work. Took an early morning detour to Dealey Plaza, with barely another soul around, and stood on the plinth that Mr Zapruder filmed from, and then walked behind the fence atop the grassy knoll.
While I don’t doubt my own ability to post-rastionalise, they say you can feel the weight of history and I certainly did. Even I could have taken that shot from the grassy knoll. It would have been an open goal.
And that’s not to say Harvey-Oswald wasn’t also having a pop from the window.
Anyway, my point is that it’s well worth a visit and can be found today exactly as it was on that day.
We’ll find out in three weeks!

“Documents under Section 5 of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 were required to be released within 25 years of the bill's October 26, 1992, effective date. Most of the documents were released on October 26, 2017. Exercising a provision of the 1992 act that allows for a President to extend the deadline, President Trump set a new deadline of October 26, 2021 for the remaining documents to be released. In October 2021, President Biden further extended the deadline to December 15, 2022, citing delays related to the COVID-19 pandemic.” Wiki
 


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