[Misc] HR Nightmare

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

Anyway, OP - it sounds like you're doing the right thing, don't doubt yourself. See HR as your allies and ask them to support you in getting the right outcome for your organisation. You can spin it onto your team member too and ask them, in front of HR, what they'd like you to do differently - make it not about them, but the impact of their behaviour so it's not personal. "We need to do X so our business can make money and survive/serve our customers/whatever the language your place uses is...how do we work together to do that?". Make it clear you're prepared to listen and adjust and keep being the reasonable one, and ask HR (with your team member in the room) to support you both in drawing up an action plan for resolving the situation that makes it measurable whether improvement has taken place and with regular reviews of that, with HR, so it doesn't drag on. Document everything and every conversation you have with the team member confirm understanding in writing after - it can be done informally, it doesn't have to be formal, but it documents things and gives them the opportunity to contest it which might be important later.

This.. similar to "positive intent" mentioned earlier.
If the employee is not really committed to the improvements they will tire of the situation before you. There will be frustrations along the way, and important that you are diligent, detailed and consistent to deal with those, but the mindset Happy Exile describes above is spot on IMO.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I find this bit interesting. How do you ask them to do things? Do you treat them as an equal person and ask with the usual politeness you would ask anyone to do something or as someone who is below you and order them around?

I had some managers who fell into the last camp and it can def rub you up the wrong way. I had actual stand up fights with one of them because of it.

I’m a manager of a team myself now and it’s the one thing I vowed not to be, overtly authoritarian. I wonder that from you saying about giving “advice” as well. Are you just being “Do as I say” about things, without actually having a reason to say what they are doing or the way they are doing things is especially bad or wrong? Are they getting the work done?

The sickness issue should in theory be easier. If they have a condition then anything more than a week needs a doctors line so you know if it’s genuine or not. Does your work have occupational health? You can refer them there for support if they have persistent sickness and it needs managed.

I go to war with control freak micromanagers. No problem in being set outcomes and being performance assessed in achieving them.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

1.5 years.

Easy then. Get them on a 5 month PIP which has one of the objectives of 'no more than 3 days sickness' ( the average sickness in industry is 7 days a year ). It will bring one of two outcomes :

1. They realise it's serious and fall into line. You win.

2. They fail the PIP and you fire them just before they get to 2 years. Employees have close to zero rights before 2 years service. You win.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I've been self employed for the last 20 years or so, prior to that I managed a team of about 10 people and yes it was both enjoyable but bloody painful at times. No one to answer to all these years has been a god send.

 

[Doonhamer7]

Only 1.5years is good news as if I remember right they effectively have very little employment rights until 2 years - so act now.
the sick leave is your only concern as if they have underlying medical conditions you could be got as a disability case so HR should be involved. We have a referral programme if your sick more than 5 times or 10days a year then you have to see the company doctor.

So as others have said document everything (factual no emotion just in case it goes to industrial tribunal). Expect your day book and

you don’t want to be doing PIPs as they are an f’ing nightmare. Discuss with your HR team about having a ‘without prejiduce’ conversation where you pay them off

our HR team are great as they do what they are supposed to which is to help you protect the business but get the result you want. Generally In engineering and construction companies HR teams are ‘hard people’ especially once people take the piss.

watch out for them turning your mgt style into bullying. Ive been the grievance manager in 3 cases where the manager didn’t get performance management in place quick enough and it was turned against them.

 

[Swimboy64]

Give the tosser the Ruud Gullit

 

[dazzer6666]

Easy then. Get them on a 5 month PIP which has one of the objectives of 'no more than 3 days sickness' ( the average sickness in industry is 7 days a year ). It will bring one of two outcomes :

1. They realise it's serious and fall into line. You win.

2. They fail the PIP and you fire them just before they get to 2 years. Employees have close to zero rights before 2 years service. You win.

…except you need to micro-manage the PIP, and it’ll probably fail on a technicality that HR will point out anyway meaning several more wasted weeks, or the employee will immediately raise a grievance that will cause even more work and stress. Five more months of crap usually.

Call them in, say things aren’t working out and suggest there is an easy way and a difficult way of dealing with this. The easy way is agreement to part company in exchange for an amount of cash (PILON plus a bit extra to make it happen) and a good reference.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Indeed.

We introduced a 360 degree appraisal system for a while. That was swiftly abandoned when the feedback towards managers was negative!

We also have a 'staff-survey' every year. The results of these are obscured and blended - and when I asked why, I was told that it was because the negative responses about one manager were 'too easily identifiable to them'. So, by 'hiding' it all, that manager (the worst I have ever known) survived for 14 years - when they should have been driven out after just a couple of years.

Yep. One cock, and instead of cutting off his goolies, a new system is introduced so that thousands of staff have to fill in forms that nobody reads, just in case the cock sues. Which he won't.

How did we ever win the war?