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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,750
town full of eejits
You're aware that on the subject of magic Grandpa, you're in a minority, right? I'm from a Labour family, brought up on a council estate. I never met a working class person who didn't think he was an utter dick head (& a sick joke in the Labour party until he bizarrely fluked the leadership).
yes and one may wonder how such a man would become opposition leader....anyway thats another story , US and British forces bombing mainland Yemen has now made US and British interests legitimate targets....this is escalating nicely , millions rallying in Tehran....best make sure your front door is locked , your government is once again stitching you up without your consent.
 




sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,750
town full of eejits
The ‘Israel-Hamas War‘ (or ‘ MIDDLE EAST CRISIS’ as it is now being referred to) has become a regional conflict as many of us warned it could right at the beginning of this thread.

Did the Government seriously just leave it up to the press to announce to the British public that our forces are now actively engaged in bombing another country? And contrary to convention, without even going through Parliament?



Seems the US (and at least 6 other countries) have committed to this with an equal distain for democratic accountability in bypassing Congress - what concerns me personally is the language of the War on Terror and the rhetoric of escalation and posturing we are seeing instead of the calling on Israel for a humanitarian ceasefire and restraint we were hearing just a few weeks ago.

US defence secretary Lloyd Austin (from his hospital bed!) has released a statement about the strikes – saying the US is prepared to take “follow-on” action to protect US. Rishi Sunak has released a similar statement regarding the protection of British forces.


Of course if Israel stopped bombing Gaza, the Houthis would stop firing rockets at Israel and drones over the Red Sea would be less disruptive, the US and UK forces wouldn’t need defending and Israel’s war wouldn’t spread to Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq and Syria - too simple? So now the US and UK are now directly involved in a proxy war with Iran.

Is anyone else seeing the ‘mission creep here? How it is becoming re-purposed as a ‘War on Terror’?
ISIS , COVID , UKRAINE GAZA all massive money spinners , MASSIVE.

if its not one thing its another , certain governments are out of control , the notion that they serve the people is long dead and buried.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,987
The arse end of Hangleton
Iran and Hamas are a marriage of convenience anyway. 7 October was completely independent of Iran and likely surprised and annoyed them.

According to a report I read on the BBC a while back, Western intelligence agencies believe Iran trained Hamas fighters for the attack as well as helped Hamas plan it. So I doubt Iran was "surprised" !
 


armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,240
Bexhill
That's like your tag line which could be expressed as unless you believe you are false. Are you a religionist? Around 400000 dead as a result of their civil war and poor people all over suffering as a result of their actions.
I'll humour you on this occasion. Please forgive me if I don't indulge on further occasion.

No I am not a "religionist"

Though I'd suggest this whole conflict and its escalation is caused by "religionists"

Bidens consience and understanding of his own religion appears to affirm him in being of mind that it is both necessary and meritorious to support Israel and profit from arms trade in their Genocide againt Palestine and further escalations in the Middle East.

I think you'd agree with me that undeniably both Netenyahu (&State of Israel) and Hamas have "religionist" outlooks.

I'm unsure exactly of the religious perspective of both Sunak & Starmer (the limp double act) though they certainly appear to be in full support of Biden and the State of Israel.

From my own perspective I think it's more than possible to be of any faith here and yearn to see an immediate ceasefire, an end to this Genocide and working toward peace, just as it is possible to not be of faith and yearn to see the same.

I'll not apologise for posting a journalistic viewpoint that may challenge or conflict with that of mainstream or a biased media.

I've already made clear on this thread that I'd like to see an immediate ceasefire and an end to the Genocide taking place before, as others and myself have warned and foreseen, things escalate to other regions of the Middle East.

Having said all this, I have a strong suspicion you'll not listen to a word I have said, so I'll allow you to pigeon hole me into whichever category you feel appropriate 😉
 
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Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,987
The arse end of Hangleton
I'll humour you on this occasion. Please forgive me if I don't indulge on further occasion.

No I am not a "religionist"

Though I'd suggest this whole conflict and its escalation is caused by "religionists"

Bidens consience and understanding of his own religion appears to affirm him in being of mind that it is both necessary and meritorious to support Israel and profit from arms trade in their Genocide againt Palestine and further escalations in the Middle East.

I think you'd agree with me that undeniably both Netenyahu (&State of Israel) and Hamas have "religionist" outlooks.

I'm unsure exactly of the religious perspective of both Sunak & Starmer (the limp double act) though they certainly appear to be in full support of Biden and the State of Israel.

From my own perspective I think it's more than possible to be of any faith here and yearn to see an immediate ceasefire, an end to this Genocide and working toward peace, just as it is possible to not be of faith and yearn to see the same.

I'll not apologise for posting a journalistic viewpoint that may challenge or conflict with that of mainstream or a biased media.

To give just one example, over the last couple of days the BBC have chosen to broadcast only Israels defence at the ICJ of the accusation of commiting genocide, without broadcasting the prosecution case.

I've already made clear on this thread that I'd like to see an immediate ceasefire and an end to the Genocide taking place before, as others and myself have warned and foreseen, things escalate to other regions of the Middle East.

Having said all this, I have a strong suspicion you'll not listen to a word I have said, so I'll allow you to pigeon hole me into whichever category you feel appropriate 😉
I disagree on your statement about the BBC. I've been following the arguements from both sides via the BBC news website and it has seemed very balanced reporting. I'm obviously hoping for an SA win regardless of reporting.
 




armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,240
Bexhill
I disagree on your statement about the BBC. I've been following the arguements from both sides via the BBC news website and it has seemed very balanced reporting. I'm obviously hoping for an SA win regardless of reporting.
Fair enough, is it not true that they only broadcast the defense initially? They may be more impartial now, happy to withdraw my comment if so.
Please see link.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,987
The arse end of Hangleton
Fair enough, is it not true that they only broadcast the defense initially? They may be more impartial now, happy to withdraw my comment if so.
Please see link.
Nope - I watched the SA submission Thursday.
 










Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
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Jul 23, 2003
34,051
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
According to a report I read on the BBC a while back, Western intelligence agencies believe Iran trained Hamas fighters for the attack as well as helped Hamas plan it. So I doubt Iran was "surprised" !
And according to this ECFR report they very much were.

 




Guinness Boy

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Jul 23, 2003
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ISIS , COVID , UKRAINE GAZA all massive money spinners , MASSIVE.

if its not one thing its another , certain governments are out of control , the notion that they serve the people is long dead and buried.
Mate.

"Massive money spinners". How do you suppose the world would work if governments didn't have money? It's literally how the world economic system, GDP, borrowing, trade, everything we rely on works, including the building materials used and alcohol consumed in Western Australia.

I tell you what else are massive money spinners though - social media and video output of conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers. It's why Barton is heading off in that direction, he's seen how much money Le Tissier has made gaslighting idiots.
 


Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,864
Fair enough, is it not true that they only broadcast the defense initially? They may be more impartial now, happy to withdraw my comment if so.
Please see link.
Maybe you missed the submissions by SA on Thursday, the opening day of the hearings? Friday, it was Israel’s turn to defend the charges by SA of Israel’s breach of law.
 


Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,864
Mate.

"Massive money spinners". How do you suppose the world would work if governments didn't have money? It's literally how the world economic system, GDP, borrowing, trade, everything we rely on works, including the building materials used and alcohol consumed in Western Australia.

I tell you what else are massive money spinners though - social media and video output of conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers. It's why Barton is heading off in that direction, he's seen how much money Le Tissier has made gaslighting idiots.
I think you may have missed the point of @sydney’s post;

The billions of dollars from war or pandemic profiteering has nothing to do ex-footballers and anti-vaxxers making money on twatter which is are pisspot amounts in comparison with the amount of money involved in the global arms trade or pharmaceuticals or banks underwriting debt to pay for it all. It is the global arms trade and private arms dealers along with pharmaceutical companies and banks that are the ‘money spinners’ and to what Sydney refers I imagine when suggesting governments lead countries into war with little concern on the burden that imposes on it’s civilians both economically and in their security (eg the latest attack on Yemen is likely to inflame and escalate the war embroiling the UK into deeper direct conflict with Iran backed terror groups rather than ‘control’ it) - but they yet prove to be massive money spinners (for the private sector).

In Ukraine alone, US arms manufacturers have raked in literally billions of dollars from contracts with the US government to provide for arms shipments to Ukraine; The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a huge profit making business to these companies;



As far as the war in Israel, I’m pretty sure in the boardrooms of Morgan Stanley, they are more interested in their portfolio accounts of aerospace and weapons manufacturers that they would be a the bank accounts of social media influencers.


War doesn’t make money for governments, it costs tax payers money that goes in the defence budget to pay for the arms manufacturers to provide the weapons. Governments are funded by taxpayers money.

It is nonsense to suggest governments made a profit from Covid too - pandemics cause significant economic cost except for the big pharmaceutical companies who rake in literally billions and billions on profits from vaccines - a little bit more than the anti-vaxxers made by getting a few extra followers on their twatter accounts:

 
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Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
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Jul 23, 2003
34,051
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I think you may have missed the point of @sydney’s post;

The billions of dollars from war or pandemic profiteering has nothing to do ex-footballers and anti-vaxxers making money on twatter which is are pisspot amounts in comparison with the amount of money involved in the global arms trade or pharmaceuticals or banks underwriting debt to pay for it all. It is the global arms trade and private arms dealers along with pharmaceutical companies and banks that are the ‘money spinners’ and to what Sydney refers I imagine when suggesting governments lead countries into war with little concern on the burden that imposes on it’s civilians both economically and in their security but yet prove to be massive money spinners (for the private sector).

In Ukraine alone, US arms manufacturers have raked in literally billions of dollars from contracts with the US government to provide for arms shipments to Ukraine; The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a huge profit making business to these companies;



As far as the war in Israel, I’m pretty sure in the boardrooms of Morgan Stanley, they are more interested in their portfolio accounts of aerospace and weapons manufacturers that they would be a the bank accounts of social media influencers.


War doesn’t make money for governments, it costs tax payers money that goes in the defence budget to pay for the arms manufacturers to provide the weapons. Governments are funded by taxpayers money.

It is laughable to suggest governments made a profit from Covid too - pandemics cause significant economic cost except for the big pharmaceutical companies who rake in literally billions and billions on profits from vaccines.

No you’ve completely misunderstood the point, which is simply “money makes the world go round”.

In times of peace, arms companies simply switch their attention to making deterrents instead. China and Taiwan have never gone to war, but I lived in Taipei for three years and we had an American arms dealer who drank in our local ex pat bar. He was neither poor, nor short of work.

Distinguish, if you want, between “good” and “bad” money, but money will always be made unless we go back to swapping sticks with each other.

The reference to conspiracy refers to other conversations on other threads between him and me. You appear to have butted in with an incorrect assumption- again.
 


Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,864
No you’ve completely misunderstood the point, which is simply “money makes the world go round”.

In times of peace, arms companies simply switch their attention to making deterrents instead. China and Taiwan have never gone to war, but I lived in Taipei for three years and we had an American arms dealer who drank in our local ex pat bar. He was neither poor, nor short of work.

Distinguish, if you want, between “good” and “bad” money, but money will always be made unless we go back to swapping sticks with each other.

The reference to conspiracy refers to other conversations on other threads between him and me. You appear to have butted in with an incorrect assumption- again.
That was your point but not the point @sydney was making and to which you were responding when you said.
Massive money spinners". How do you suppose the world would work if governments didn't have money?
My point (and relevant to this thread) is that governments don’t have money from the massive money spinners of war - they get their money from taxpayers, it is the banks, arms dealers and pharmaceutical companies that are the money profiteers from the things @sydney listed not governments as you suggest.
 


Guinness Boy

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Jul 23, 2003
34,051
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That was your point but not the point @sydney was making and to which you were responding when you said.

My point (and relevant to this thread) is that governments don’t have money from the massive money spinners of war - they get their money from taxpayers.
How do you know what he means? He doesn’t know himself half the time!
 


armchairclubber

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2010
1,240
Bexhill
Maybe you missed the submissions by SA on Thursday, the opening day of the hearings? Friday, it was Israel’s turn to defend the charges by SA of Israel’s breach of law.
No, I did hear excerpts of submissions from SA on Thursday.. though not via the BBC.

The objection being made by some was that this first day was not broadcast live (even by stream) by the BBC whereas Israels defense on Friday was, which wasn't seen as impartial.

Since led to believe this is not necessarily the case, so can be ignored.
 




Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,864
You appear to have butted in with an incorrect assumption- again….How do you know what he means? He doesn’t know himself half the time!
How do you then? Geez 🙄. Instead of trying to discredit me or other posters who you perceive to be on the opposite ’side’ to you and again posting misinformation to argue what you think is a binary issue, why not answer my response to your inaccurate assertion that Maersk diverted its shipping ‘way before any western navy action in the area’ ? (post#3863)
 
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Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
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Jul 23, 2003
34,051
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
How do you then? Geez 🙄. Instead of trying to discredit me or other posters who you perceive to be on the opposite ’side’ to you and again posting misinformation to argue what you think is a binary issue, why not answer my response to your inaccurate assertion that Maersk diverted its shipping ‘way before any western navy action in the area’ ? (post#3863)
Because I picked up Sydney on a completely different point. I had no intention of wasting my Saturday thread hogging with you.

Also because it’s irrelevant. The Houthis are terrorists carrying out illegal attacks on shipping. I’m glad they’re getting bombed.
 
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