Freedom for the Firle 12

[Gazwag]

From todays Daily Telegraph


Gipsy bonfire racial hatred case dropped
By David Sapsted
(Filed: 08/07/2004)


Villagers arrested after burning effigies of travellers in a caravan on Guy Fawkes Night are not to be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred.



The Crown Prosecution Service said yesterday there was insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction against 12 members of the Firle Bonfire Society.

Police launched an investigation in November after the bonfire in the East Sussex village, then the site of an illegal traveller camp, featured a caravan bearing a picture of a gipsy family, the number plate "P1 KEY" and an advertisement for "Do As You Likey Driveways Ltd - guaranteed to rip you off".

After the bonfire, a local woman complained to police and, eventually, the Commission for Racial Equality demanded action be taken.

But yesterday, Ken Macdonald QC, the Director of Public Prosecutions, said he was satisfied with the decision not to prosecute.

"I understand the disquiet and repugnance of those who were offended," he said.

"But in order to prosecute, there must be sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction and if the evidence is not there, no matter how disturbing or unpleasant the allegations may be, a case cannot go ahead."

Roz South, a spokesman for the bonfire society, said: "The decision confirms what we have always said - there was no racial motive or any intention to attack the traveller community."

 

[REDLAND]

A very ill thought out stunt, but not woth a stint in jail !!

 

[Dover]

REDLAND is spot on. Did the 12 spend all this time in custody? If so what a waste of Police resoruces, and that of the legal system.

 

[aftershavedave]

[BDid the 12 spend all this time in custody?[/B]

i can't imagine so...

not the cleverest thing to have done though is it!

 

[CHAPPERS]

They should have been charged.

 

[Dover]

Chappers. Charged with what? Racial incitement, taking the mickey by using a charicture, or just being daft and maybe thoughtless.

This just sounds like Viz a few years ago. A half arsed apology was printed and everyone was happy.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I HATE effegies, i thing they are disgusting, especially when aimed at a 'group' of people. Racial incitement? Possibly, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with behaviour like that when a lot of lesser 'crimes' are punished.

 

[Dover]

So all of the parades that go on in Lewes should be punished.

 

[Gully]

It's a very thin line isn't it, what do you call racial abuse and what don't you call racial abuse. I think you will find that true Gipsys, ie: the Romany type, consider themselves to be an ethnic grouping, shouldn't we therefore treat this with the respect it deserves. I am sure that everyone would have kicked up a massive stink had this group burnt a model of a corner shop with an asian name above the door and pictures of a family looking from the windows, quite rightly so.

I think Dover is right on the suggestion that this was a thoughtless act, that is however the basis of so much abuse, the person giving it gives no thought to the consequences or impact upon the receiver.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So all of the parades that go on in Lewes should be punished.

Yes.

 

[Dover]

Blimey! Stong stuff.

I have been to Lewes once for Bonfire Night, with Krispies and his dearly departed Mum, both Catholics. The reasons I hated it was too many people were there, and it was poring with rain.

I personally belive that if people can be charged with simply not thinking, the law is an ass.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Blimey! Stong stuff.

I have been to Lewes once for Bonfire Night, with Krispies and his dearly departed Mum, both Catholics. The reasons I hated it was too many people were there, and it was poring with rain.

I personally belive that if people can be charged with simply not thinking, the law is an ass.

I don't understand how you can say that they did not think.

They obviously did think about it otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

 

[Dover]

OK then. Not thinking their actions through is what I should have put.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's a very thin line isn't it, what do you call racial abuse and what don't you call racial abuse. I think you will find that true Gipsys, ie: the Romany type, consider themselves to be an ethnic grouping, shouldn't we therefore treat this with the respect it deserves. I am sure that everyone would have kicked up a massive stink had this group burnt a model of a corner shop with an asian name above the door and pictures of a family looking from the windows, quite rightly so.

"true" Gipsys arent the sort of traveller who do dodgy driveways, leave crap everywhere on their sites and general act like there on the fringe of the law. thats the travellers/pikeys that the people of firle where protesting against, and they're nothing more than people who have dropped out of regular society. They arent a seperate race, and shouldnt be given any special treatment.

 

[CHAPPERS]

OK then. Not thinking their actions through is what I should have put.

I thnik they did that too, probably while they were painting P1KEYS on the side of the caravan.

 

[Gazwag]

If during the next few weeks a gate is left open at Withdean and a hord of "Gipsys" decended on the pitch causing the first few home matches to be cancelled and then left leaving piles of hardcore, rubbish, human waste all over the pitch, might we all feel the same sort of frustrations that the people of Firle felt.

What they did was born out of the fact that the landowner is powerless to force them off the land until a court order which they have to pay for is served and then clear up the mess left behind

I notice we have a load of gipseys on Bexhill Downs at the moment, depsite the council paying (from Taxpayers money) to put wodden stakes around the entire boundry to try to keep them off, they simple cut the lock on the gates and move in.

When they leave the taxpayers are then faced with the expense of clearing up the crap they leave.

If these people abided by the laws of the land and were considerate to the locals and left the site in the same state they found them then people would accept them more

 

[itszamora]

Roz South, a spokesman for the bonfire society, said: "The decision confirms what we have always said - there was no racial motive or any intention to attack the traveller community."

Surely not our Roz? I could've sworn my cheque for the falmer fanzine a while back was written out to a Roz South..

 

[CHAPPERS]

Re: Re: Freedom for the Firle 12

Surely not our Roz? I could've sworn my cheque for the falmer fanzine a while back was written out to a Roz South..

It is Roz.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

I have heard members of the travelling community having a discussion in my local pub a few months back,their views on immigration make th Klu Klux Klan sound like Guardian readers.

 

[Gully]

I knew this was going to turn into a "hot topic", I accept totally that there is a big difference between the stereotypical gipsy of the Romany type and the travellers who move around the country with large fleets of caravans and 4x4's leaving a trail of devastation in their wake. The traditional gipsy both lived off the land and respected it, their choice was to forego the trappings of a modern society and live by more traditional and nomadic method.

It is clear that the issue of modern day travellers is one that is difficult to address, it is probably the most likely topic to get the nimby treatment, even more so than waste incinerators and football grounds. We know how frustrating it is that a large group of people are opposed to the building of our new football stadium, the majority of us probably live in good accommodation and have few real worries in our lives. I suppose it is difficult to put yourself in the travellers shoes, not wanted anywhere that they go, shunned by society.

There is however an easy solution and it is all down to education, both of society and the travellers themselves. The way I see it is that the travellers need to start helping themselves, stop leaving the mess that has been described above when they leave a camp site, I think people would be far more tolerent if this happened. Councils should be compelled to provide safe sites where travellers can stay, provide running water, toilet and washing facilities with proper sewerage. This will come at a cost, I would however suggest that it would be no greater than that icurred at present cleaning up the mess left on unofficial sites, far less harmful to the environment and less likely to cause the type of problems that their presence can cause in many communities. I am not advocating an out of site out of mind approach, that is to say banishing travellers to places nobody really wants to be, but one that is fair to all concerned.