Farenheit 9/11

[Soton Seagull]

Saw it this evening and must recommend it to those who have not seen it yet. It is probably as Anti-Bush in it's presentation as the US media is Pro-Bush, as such it helps to balance the arguments.

There is some truly terrible stuff shown, and if you accept that Michael Moore hates Bush and sets out to do a job on him, you still get the sense of just how badly misled the west was with regard to the Iraq situation.

He conviniently omits Britain and Spain from the 'coalition of the willing' etc, but there is so much in the film that you cannot fail to be amazed by the arrogance and stupidity of 'Dubya'.

Great (albeit heavily biased) film making. Raises interesting points, switching between laugh out loud moments and sombre thought provoking sights, which I would argue is Moore's strength.

Anyone else partaken as yet? Your views?

 

[Mr C]

Am going to see next weekend hopefully.

 

[clapham_gull]

Just got back tonight from seeing the film. Agree with you entirely, but there is nothing in there that hasn't already been written about in the press.

The overall message of the film is VALID , but Moore (in my opinion) is opening himself up for criticism with factual errors.

Quite strange from a British point of view that our part in the Iraqi war is completely ignored.

He makes the point that only a few small countries with no military supported the USA. Quite patronisingly shows old film footage of rural Romanians (to represent Romania) but doesn't mention the UK or Spain !

Also contradicts himself about the war on Aghanistan - is he saying that America shoudn't have sent any troops or didn't send enough Well he says both.....

Showing Iraq as a blissfull country prior to the invasion was a bit much as well.

The statement that Iraq never threatened a single American wasn't true either. American hostages were taken in Kuwait.

Totally unnecessary thing to say, and unfortunately right wing critics in America have quickly picked up on things like that.

When Bush said that Saddam attempted to murder his father, it got a big laugh in the cinema, because the film implies that the statement isn't true. Well there is good evidence that there was a Iraq plot to murder Bush Snr overseas, Richard Clarke (who incidently Moore uses in his film to back up his arguments) writes about it in Against All Enemies.

Good film and I agree with its sentiments but Moore gets on my nerves a bit. He is NOT from a working class background as he keeps saying in this and his other films. He was brought up in a posh suburb of the town, and his father (who was wealthy enough to retire early) paid for him to go to University.

I guess we shouldn't shoot the messenger and be glad that AMERICANS are watching this film in droves.

 

[clapham_gull]

Okay the above sounded a bit negative. I think we should applaud Moore for having the guts to do what he is doing, even though his journalism is sometimes a little bit flawed.

The film contains uncensored war footage of civilian casualities, which I hope opens a few eyes. You also get to see the biased and bombastic network news coverage that Americans are subjected to.

You also get to hear the other American point of the view, the dissenting voices that have been ignored in both pro and anti reporting of the American response to the war.

The two old ladies complaining about the way American companies are profiting from the war is class.

 

[London Irish]

Am going to see next weekend hopefully.

Now YOUR views will be interesting to hear!

Clapham, I thought Moore's dad was a GM car assembly line worker, and in Roger and Me you saw all the guys that Moore grew up with, ie. other assembly line workers. Posh?

Money bloody well spent, if you ask me, by Mr Moore Snr sending young Michael "off to school" as the Yanks put it.

 

[Cian]

His entire family were GM employees, yes - GM used to pay very, very well, hence the university and early retirement.

Then they screwed Flint over big time, and the entire city is a slum now really.

 

[hooker]

"smoke em out"

 

[clapham_gull]

Now YOUR views will be interesting to hear!

Clapham, I thought Moore's dad was a GM car assembly line worker, and in Roger and Me you saw all the guys that Moore grew up with, ie. other assembly line workers. Posh?

Money bloody well spent, if you ask me, by Mr Moore Snr sending young Michael "off to school" as the Yanks put it.

Agree totally, don't want to get hung up on Moore - its just a shame that he's a bit sloppy sometimes with the insignificant facts and that's what (unfortunately) the critics pick up on. Its a shame because when you read that his films are factually inaccurate, some people will believe that the important arguments he makes are also flawed which of course they are not.

Look at the way Gilligan was castigated for a few minor errors.

Posh was of course the wrong word...............

I'm still a bit annoyed that he omitted the UKs role in the war though.. have you seen the film ? Don't think I've ever sat in a cinema where a film had such an effect on an audience. Laughing out loud one minute, shocked into silence the second.

 

[Soton Seagull]

Where I was the audience broke out in to spontaneous applause as the credits rolled. The guy certainly has a way of getting his message across.

As for George W, Moore doesn't really have to say much about him, just show him in action. Dubya shows himself to be a complete moron, or maybe he delibrately behaves that way to cover up the unpleasant scheming truth?

 

[London Irish]

have you seen the film ? Don't think I've ever sat in a cinema where a film had such an effect on an audience. Laughing out loud one minute, shocked into silence the second.

I still haven't seen Bowling for Columbine yet! I'll have to get my leftwing ass into gear.

 

[Soton Seagull]

I still haven't seen Bowling for Columbine yet! I'll have to get my leftwing ass into gear.

A great film, which shows just how evil the American Gun lobby is, and how the culture of fear rules the US. Also shows that Charlton Heston is the world's nastiest man!

 

[clapham_gull]

Moore is a complex character. He stormed out of the Round House in Camden after an argument with the staff on his UK tour.

They were so pissed off with him they locked the doors and didn't allow him back in.

When he was filming over here for his American series he alledgely make Channel 4 put him up in the Ritz.

He is full of contradictions, but thankfully he is putting his energies towards a noble cause.

He is talking about making a film about Tony Blair. Can't wait.

 

[London Irish]

I heard all the diva stuff about Channel 4 too. It could be true, but a guy like Moore not only evokes revulsion and hatred from the right, but also a fair degree of jealousy from the left, so I keep an open mind when I hear gossip like that.

He'd better hurry up on Blair, the way Panorama totally skewered the vicar tonight, I honestly don't think he's got long left. Gordon Brown I reckon is getting very twitchy.............

 

[clapham_gull]

Just a shame Panorama has been moved to that crap slot. Should be on Monday night after the news. Glad to see the BBC getting their own back. Why wasn't the bloke interviewed giving evidence at the Hutton enquiry ?

Everybody should read Richard Clarkes Against All Enemies. More cock up rather than conspiracy, but very interesting stuff coming from a member of the American political establishment.

Even after the Michael Moore film, the question "Why did America invade Iraq" has yet to be answered. Has it alot to do with the theology of that right wing Amercan think tank (which name escapes me.. New Century something..) - the one that Rumsfold took up his time with between Bush and Bush.

Moore didn't really tackle that.

 

[London Irish]

You asked, you get - this is the reason why the Iraq war happened, the influence of these neo-conservative ghouls:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Then read this brilliant expose:

http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/invading.html

I must say, it's a bit of laugh that people are complaining that an American satirist like Michael Moore has airbrushed Britain's role out of the slaughter of 11,000 people in Iraq Shouldn't we be pleased? Not exactly something I'd want to remind the rest of the world about!

But OK, here's another piece of American satire where we can proud that Blair takes centre stage in the action:

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/oily_grail1.htm

 

[alan partridge]

the best thing about the Fahrenheit 9/11 is thinking about people like Looney going to see it and squirming with anger and then rushing home to their PCs to start picking holes in anything in it they can.

 

[Simster]

the best thing about the Fahrenheit 9/11 is thinking about people like Looney going to see it and squirming with anger and then rushing home to their PCs to start picking holes in anything in it they can.

He'll be on this thread this afternoon, make no mistake.

 

[clapham_gull]

Sweeping generalistion coming up, but I feel the film was made for an American audience so I shouldn't have expected any real insight. Wished he'd gone more into the neo cons, the influence of Rumsfold etc.. rather than the obvious stupidity of Bush.

I did like the way that the whole story is constructed right back to the Bush election victory in Florida.

The bit that made me laugh the most was the Taliban guy, who said after being ambushed in an interview by the Amercan female (journalist?) that he felt sorry for her husband.

 

[Albion Dan]

Im going to catch this one this week. Its a shame that Moore has obviously left himself open to abuse by the right wing brigade in certain areas, but its great that the film is being well received on the whole and gettting great reviews in the general press.

I wonder though if the Gareth Glovers of this world that live with their head in the sand will even have to guts to go and have their opinions challenged by this film?

 

[Rangdo]

Sweeping generalistion coming up, but I feel the film was made for an American audience so I shouldn't have expected any real insight. Wished he'd gone more into the neo cons, the influence of Rumsfold etc.. rather than the obvious stupidity of Bush.

I did like the way that the whole story is constructed right back to the Bush election victory in Florida.

The bit that made me laugh the most was the Taliban guy, who said after being ambushed in an interview by the Amercan female (journalist?) that he felt sorry for her husband.

I think it was aimed at the American audience to influence election results.
The footage of dead and wounded American soldiers will certainly turn a few heads over there since this has been censored from their news.