Falmer question for those in the know.

[Rangdo]

A letter in the Argus today was rubbishing the plans for Falmer because of the parking situation. Could someone (probably Lord B but feel free to chip in) answer a couple of questions for me?
1. Do we have a parking agreement with both Sussex and Brighton Universities?
2. Is the agreement such that parking will only be allowed after certain times on matchdays?

 

[Turkey]

As I understand it there will be no parking at the site or the Uni's. Access via Park and Ride.

 

[John Boy]

Damn, I wanted the whole village to be bulldozed for a multi-storey car park

 

[Braders]

As I understand it there will be no parking at the site or the Uni's. Access via Park and Ride.

or train ?

 

[Turkey]

or train ?

Of course.

 

[Turkey]

Damn, I wanted the whole village to be bulldozed for a multi-storey car park

It's funny how you always see the picture of the pond. As if we're going to concrete it over for a car park!

 

[dougdeep]

Parking is being allowed at Falmer School, although there is talk of the parking fee being as much as £8 per car.

 

[Rangdo]

There are definite agreements for parking in existing spaces at Sussex University and Falmer High School. Total more than 2,000 existing spaces, I believe.

What about Brighton Uni?
Is that figure the total number of spaces already there or the number that we are being permitted to use?

 

[Theatre of Trees]

I'm not sure what the exact numbers are for parking and whether they've been agreed but I'd imagine the biggest car park at Sussex Uni(probably the Science Car Park which has over 1500 spaces) will be given over and there is some deal regarding the fact that cars must have a certain number of people in them to gain entry.

Most Unis are now broke and have been told by the government to make as much as they can independently so I'd imagine that charging for the use of their facilities by outsiders would interest both Unis greatly.

 

[perseus]

A response if you care to draw up a letter.

One of the great advantages for Falmer on planning and environmental grounds (over Sheepcote and all other sites) is that a limited amount of car parking is already available (already used during weekdays) so know extra green fields would not need to be built on for a car parking provision.

The bits that would not go in the letter:

This is one of the disadvantages for the Albion because the car parking dosh will go (probably?) in the coffers of the University and this could pay the wages of a few extra players.

PS:

Car parking would cost more than the trains for more than three occupants. £2.50 x 3 = £7.50 minus any cost and inconvenience of driving to the public transport location, bus stop or train station.

By the time it is built it will be at least a tenner per car. Why the hell do you think the Universities were so keen on the plan?

This is all surmise. As far as I know the figures have not been published, so a few details could be wrong?

Say average 2,500 x 20 matches x £10 a car is £½ million a season. These sort of figures would actually pay for the cost of the access roads (£2 million a kilometre) in the alternative Pende plan (cost £10 million or so with all the spin-offs for other earners using the car parking the rest of the time).

 

[skitz]

Andy, be honest...

I don't think you're a Palace fan on a wind up. In fact, you're clearly an Albion fan, what with the website, being on the mailing list etc.

Why do you keep banging on about Pende?

Unless you have so much time on your hands that you don't mind constantly wasting your time banging on about it in a manner reminiscent of the people who wander around town centres hoisting "the end is nigh" banners, I can only surmise that you genuinely believe the club has Pende all lined up as an alternative site?

Or maybe you think that the club actually has the finances to fund a campaign for Pende in the unlikely event of Falmer failing?

Not that it's a problem; lord knows there's plenty of room at the Albion for eccentrics if you don't have an explanation. But if you do then I'd be interested to (at last) hear it.

 

[perseus]

Skitz

I think we are being shafted over Falmer on the costs. But that it does not really matter too much cause the Albion will go hell bent for Falmer whatever, (even if it does not look so good as it did originally) just cause it always happens this way.

I put it to Martin Perry that it was a better bet way back before we moved to Withdean.

If it is any consolation, I do not think it will be the end of the world if we do not get Falmer (and it is only 50%).

I think the Albion would be out of their mind not to go for Pende cause it would be cheaper now. It would bigger as well. And quicker?

It would require new blood on the Albion Board, so it is really only a better alternative if Falmer comes a cropper. Quite right, they do NOT have the finances. They are trying to do the Planning Permission in-house.

The alternative would be to get an outside developer (or a share issue for the project) and lease the ground with an option to purchase (like Watford) and bung all the costs on the developer. All a developer would need is an agreement to operate ther stadium when/if built.

What the hell !
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Pende.htm

If you think Brighton Council are not a lot of tossers

 

[curly]

don't know if it helps, but i sometimes work in admiralty arch where prescot's office is, just off traf sqaure (london), so the other day because the staff car was duff i had to take me own car ther so i parked me car there with all me bhafc stickers on display so all those who worked there could see, though i think the deputy pm was in brighton

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Will do a more detailed response later. For the moment I'll just say that Perseus is - as usual - factually wrong in his account of the agreement with the Universities.

Why, Perseus, do you continue to invent rubbish about the Falmer application?

If we are permitted to "surmise" (which is all Perseus ever does), my "surmise" is that he is a disgrace to the Albion's cause and is doing everything he can to undermine the Falmer planning application.

Why?

 

[perseus]

Lord Bracknell: tell us the facts, and then there will be no need to surmise.

Like, who is going to get the car parking dosh?

So Albion have to pay for the new access roads and junctions, pay for the University buildings (can I assume why we have waited so long is the that their value had to go down to nil in the balance sheet?), and then have our hands tied behind our back with restrictive ticket availability so people cannot turn up on the day of the match and buy tickets.

I am not into "Falmer or Bust" only into "Falmer if it is a good deal."

Albion will still have to persusade the bankers.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

First of all Rangdo's questions.

1. Do we have a parking agreement with both Sussex and Brighton Universities?

There are several planning agreements and undertakings that have been signed.

1. An agreement between the Club & the City Council;
2. An agreement between the Club, the City Council and the University of Sussex;
3. An agreement between the Club, the City Council and the University of Brighton;
4. A unilateral undertaking by the Club and the City Council to Lewes District Council and East Sussex County Council.

There is also a set of planning conditions that the Club have suggested should be imposed by the Deputy Prime Minister in the event of planning permission being granted.

There is also a commitment to operate a Transport Management Plan, to be supervised by a Transport Management Group, consisting of the Football Club, the City Council, the two Universities and the transport operators (bus and rail).

Car parking, coach parking, park & ride and bicycle parking are all covered in these agreements and suggested conditions and plans.

Matchday parking for supporters will be provided on the University of Sussex and Falmer School sites. The "Brighton University site" will provide coach parking and operational parking for the Club's own use (players, staff, sponsors, etc, plus disabled parking spaces). However, this will be on land that will transfer to the Club's ownership. No matchday parking will be provided by the University of Brighton.

Parking charges and conditions and stewarding arrangements will be covered by the Transport Management Plan. The Deputy Prime Minister has powers to impose some conditions when planning permission is granted (and the Club has suggested some conditions that might be included).

A lot of the detail is dealt with in the Inspector's Report on the Planning Application (pages 177 to 189) and in the supporting documents submitted to the Public Inquiry by the Club.


2. Is the agreement such that parking will only be allowed after certain times on matchdays?

The agreement requires the University of Sussex to make their parking facilities available for 32 "outdoor events" per year, when crowds in excess of 5,000 are expected. This obviously includes football matches, but other events are also covered.

The times that parking will be required will depend on the time that events are programmed. The discussion in the Inspector's Report about the time limits that will apply is exclusively about how late events should finish (not how early they might start). The proposal by the Club is 1.00 am (although they would accept midnight). The inspector suggests midnight, Mondays to Saturdays, 11.00 pm, Sundays. The final planning conditions will set the limits.

Much of the detail will, of course, be included in the Transport Management Plan, the details of which will be subject to on-going negotiation between the parties over the life of the stadium. In other words, within the parameters set down in the planning conditions, there will be flexibility to manage parking sensibly over the life of the stadium.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As far as the point made by Perseus in concerned ...

The Universities will not collect the car parking fees. Brighton University will not provide any car parking spaces at all. Sussex University and Falmer School will be recompensed for the parking that they provide through the Transport Management Agreement. The Club will handle the money (in the same way that they currently do at Withdean).

As I said in my earlier post, it would really help if Perseus stopped inventing myths. The information is already in the public arena. He just can't be bothered to check it out. It's not for me to "tell us the facts". If he wants them, he can get them. My "surmise" is that he doesn't want them.

 

[Rangdo]

Cheers Lord B
It surprises me that there isn't something to prevent football parking before a certain time. For example, preventing parking before 6 for evening games to avoid conflicting with the unversity staff and students. I suppose the Unis can negotiate this on an on-going basis if problems occur.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So Albion have to pay for the new access roads and junctions, pay for the University buildings (can I assume why we have waited so long is the that their value had to go down to nil in the balance sheet?)

The Agreements with the Universities provide for the Albion making a contribution to the costs of access roads and buildings.

That's not the same thing as "paying for" them.

As to the specific question - "can I assume why we have waited so long is the that their value had to go down to nil in the balance sheet?" - the answer is NO.

The reason we have "waited so long" is because the application was called in for a Public Inquiry and things are now being delayed by a second Public Inquiry.

I thought everyone knew that. Apparently the information failed to reach Perseus.

 

[perseus]

Thanks for posting the information Lord Bracknell. I will accept it as right.

I will go by train. I can't stand traffic jams.