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[Other Sport] F1 2023



JackB247

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2013
1,327
Burgess Hill
So, with the season done and dusted, let's take a look back and laugh at my pre-season predictions :ROFLMAO: :

On Prediction 1: Bzzzt, fail.

On Prediction 2: Bzzzt, fail.

On Prediction 3: Partial, but more fail than success in the end.

On Prediction 4: I'm going to claim this one as a success. Especially with the latest rumour being that Ricciardo's 2024 contract specifically covers the possibility of him replacing Checo during 2024.

On Prediction 5: Claiming this as well, I think a 7th place WCC finish and some of Albon's heroic drives scores this one as a success.

On Prediction 6: More success than fail. AM lost their way a little and surrendered what looked to be a very secure top-4 WCC result, but form came back a little late season. Alonso, as predicted, led the charge. Failed on the element of Alpine also being a P4 challenger, although they were (a long way back!) the closest team behind AM.

On Prediction 7: Success. Car was a lemon initially, transformed into what would have been a P2 WCC contender if they'd had it from race 1. Both drivers have commented multiple times during the year about the unusual handling characteristics (apparently still there even in the updated car).

On Prediction 8: Sargeant struggled, but was not replaced. So, a fail.

On Prediction 9: Spectacular fail :ROFLMAO:.

On Prediction 10: Big fail here as well. Red Bull did start making noises about the impact of the penalty, but it all went quiet once it was clear they were so far out front they were never getting caught.

Score: 4/10 (3x correct, 1x 0.33, 1x 0.66).
Assessment: Must do better in 2024.
The Red Bull prediction would have been correct if the FIA/F1 bothered to hand Red Bull a worthwhile overspend penalty!

Maybe it wouldn't have mattered with the car being so good anyway in 2022 but the advantage they got as a result of that overspend at the start of the new regs is a contributing factor to how they are able to be so dominant this year.

F1 did their best to neuter Mercedes dominance and bring them back towards the field, be interesting to see whether they try it with Max/RB next year.
 

Flounce

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
636
The Red Bull prediction would have been correct if the FIA/F1 bothered to hand Red Bull a worthwhile overspend penalty!

Maybe it wouldn't have mattered with the car being so good anyway in 2022 but the advantage they got as a result of that overspend at the start of the new regs is a contributing factor to how they are able to be so dominant this year.

F1 did their best to neuter Mercedes dominance and bring them back towards the field, be interesting to see whether they try it with Max/RB next year.
Mercedes shot themselves in the foot this season, nobody else to blame. Not listening to Hamilton was either stupid or arrogant

 

JackB247

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2013
1,327
Burgess Hill
Mercedes shot themselves in the foot this season, nobody else to blame. Not listening to Hamilton was either stupid or arrogant

Agreed, the design of the car has been all wrong for two years! Pleased they have now changed tac but fear it's too late to produce a championship challenger for next year.

My initial comment was more referring to the dominant times 2014-2020 when F1 made a series of regs changes designed to limit the Mercedes advantage.
 

zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 7, 2003
21,633
Sussex, by the sea
Best thing about season end is 3 months without having to listen to Karen, Max or the Dutch national anthem.

British Belgian and Brazilian were the only three I managed to watch this season, F1 is so dull At the moment.

so dull I'm getting my own car out . . . .booked a track day at Goodwood late Feb. Zef Jr can have a go. I'm trying to get enthusiastic about racing, but struggling TBH. When the Jordans, Neills, now the Neweys get involved in historics, you know its right royally f**ked, from an historical point at least.

for clarity, he's a genius engineer, and by all accounts a good guy. His book is a very good read.
 

kojak

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2022
722
Best thing about season end is 3 months without having to listen to Karen, Max or the Dutch national anthem.

British Belgian and Brazilian were the only three I managed to watch this season, F1 is so dull At the moment.

so dull I'm getting my own car out . . . .booked a track day at Goodwood late Feb. Zef Jr can have a go. I'm trying to get enthusiastic about racing, but struggling TBH. When the Jordans, Neills, now the Neweys get involved in historics, you know its right royally f**ked, from an historical point at least.

for clarity, he's a genius engineer, and by all accounts a good guy. His book is a very good read.
we need a team to turn up with a six wheeler or a fcuking great fan on the back
just to liven things up a bit 🚜
 


AstroSloth

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2020
909
we need a team to turn up with a six wheeler or a fcuking great fan on the back
just to liven things up a bit 🚜
Rules are too strict for that and any innovation gets stomped straight away.

Next shake up is likely to be 2026 with the new regs and engines.

Also if Andretti finally get approved.
 

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,885
Uckfield
the advantage they got as a result of that overspend at the start of the new regs is a contributing factor to how they are able to be so dominant this year

That's been overblown somewhat. vast majority of Red Bull's "overspend" was the result of an admin cock-up that meant they were unable to claim a tax rebate that meant their overall spend was higher than it would have otherwise been. The vast majority of what we left was because they (incorrectly) thought they could exempt a certain amount of a senior staff member's pay while they were on gardening leave. If they hadn't made that particular admin error, they would have looked at alternative ways of getting that money off the books. All up, I don't personally think Red Bull actually spent more money on their 2022 and 2023 cars than they would have.

2023 car still would have been just as good. Where the penalty will hurt somewhat is that the 2024 car development will have been restricted somewhat. But that's counterweighted by the fact the 2023 car was soooo dominant they could start 2024 dev early.


Rules are too strict for that and any innovation gets stomped straight away.

Next shake up is likely to be 2026 with the new regs and engines.

Also if Andretti finally get approved.

Depends on the innovation. Innovations that are clearly exploiting loopholes in the rules tend to get stomped on (eg the Aston Martin rear wing design from Hungary last year). Innovations that sit entirely within the rules tend to be allowed (eg Red Bull's venturi tunnel design for 2023 which is/was unique and other teams have been racing to copy since they got a good look at a Red Bull hanging from a crane).

2026 new regs could shake things up a little, for sure. Power units change ("simplified" with higher electric output), as well as some alterations to the cars designed to rectify some gaps in the current aero regs. Front wings will be reduced in width, overall car length, width, and weight will be reduced, wheel rims expected to reduce from 18 inch to 16 inch.

There's some mock-ups on AMuS:


I'm also hoping, and now expecting, that Andretti will be approved. Some more details about their tie-up with Cadillac have emerged, which will make it very hard for FOM to reject them. Cadillac have now committed to building their own engine (for 2028 from memory), and been clear that this will only happen if they are allowed to enter as partner with Andretti. Andretti want to join for 2025 and get a season in ahead of the new regs. FOM would prefer 2026. The only question that really remains IMO is whether FOM will play hard ball on trying to delay the entry to 2026 so they can increase the entry fee (currently $200m) to something higher to appease the other teams (who target $600m, but I expect there might be a negotiated figure somewhere in the middle).

I'll get a 2024 thread started soon. Won't be much of interest until car reveals, though, as the silly season has well and truly ended early for 2024. Williams have now confirmed Logan Sargeant will continue - which means, for the first time ever in Formula 1 history, the driver line up that ended 2023 is set to be the same as the line up that starts 2024. Looks like we'll have to wait until in-season for driver move intrigue - rumour has it Ricciardo's contract caters for a potential move into Red Bull (explicitly details salary increases if it happens), while over at Ferrari it looks like Leclerc might be ready to sign a new long term contract to 2029 while Sainz' situation looks a lot like Alonso's at Alpine before his shock mover to AM (Sainz wants a 2 year extension, Ferrari wants to go for 1 year).
 

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,885
Uckfield
Time to park this thread? I've got the 2024 one open:

 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,496
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Time to park this thread? I've got the 2024 one open:

Good work @Audax and I salute your indefatigability.

Let’s hope ‘24 is a wee bit more interesting.
 

kojak

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2022
722
Sad news from the other side of the pond

The double indy car Champ and indy 500 winner

Gil de Ferran has died

Heart attack,aged 56
 

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