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[Football] England V Wales

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SAC

Members
May 21, 2014
2,372
I can't remember who it was but someone was questioning why Bellingham and Saka started against USA. In hindsight both were poor but but justified their place after fine performances against Iran.

Henderson didn't do much wrong against USA so I can see why he would start although I would play Gallagher instead. I hope Grealish starts as he also did little wrong against USA.
 


Kinky Gerbils

Im The Scatman
Jul 16, 2003
56,060
hassocks
To be fair, Bellingham was anonymous against the USA. Not sure why Henderson comes in though!

He was not great, but he is someone you build the team around and not bin him off after one semi bad game.

Plus I think its safe to say Mount will start still
 

Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
21,320
Sweden
Didn’t Southgate get us to WC semi and Euros Final ? Am I missing something here ?!
He sure did... with a little help of his friends (the footballers, who play some importance in where you end up in a football cup - or league for that matter).

To take one of the 6th-10th best squads in the world to a top 4 and top 2 finish is obviously good. But England had a fair bit of luck with the draws in knockout-rounds that just takes some glory away from the achievement. The only really good team England managed to beat in the knockout rounds of the 2018 / 2020 tournaments were Denmark. Obviously you can only beat what is in front of you, but IMO this (along with the usually pretty turgid football) is what puts some question marks behind those fine tournament finishes.
 

Brovion

AlecsGrandad
Jul 6, 2003
18,403
Didn’t Southgate get us to WC semi and Euros Final ? Am I missing something here ?!
Ah the 'Southgate Paradox'. Yes he did. Yes in so many respects, especially using the sharp matrix of tournament performances, he is one of the best England managers of all time. Better than Venables. Better than Hoddle. Better than Eriksson. WAY better than Capello, Greenwood, Taylor or Revie (and I'm not even going to include McClaren).

But yes you are missing something, he does have glaring faults. He is seemingly incapable of changing a game, especially one that's slipping away. He also would rather protect our weaknesses than play to our strengths. It's these factors that piss people off and blind them to his very real achievements. Also he does share two annoying traits of his predecessors: we can seemingly never win a game against the odds when we play a top side, and, like a lot of England managers he has a deep mistrust of skilled players. Back in the 1970s the likes of Revie and Greenwood never trusted players like Tony Currie, Alan Hudson or Frank Worthington who were just a skilful as any South American, but seemingly could never be trusted. Like them he prefers the (to slightly mis-quote Super Hans from Peep Show) 'meat and potatoes, straight up and down, penis in the vagina' type players. He is Chris Hughton and sometimes he should be Roberto De Zerbi.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,553
Faversham
Ah the 'Southgate Paradox'. Yes he did. Yes in so many respects, especially using the sharp matrix of tournament performances, he is one of the best England managers of all time. Better than Venables. Better than Hoddle. Better than Eriksson. WAY better than Capello, Greenwood, Taylor or Revie (and I'm not even going to include McClaren).

But yes you are missing something, he does have glaring faults. He is seemingly incapable of changing a game, especially one that's slipping away. He also would rather protect our weaknesses than play to our strengths. It's these factors that piss people off and blind them to his very real achievements. Also he does share two annoying traits of his predecessors: we can seemingly never win a game against the odds when we play a top side, and, like a lot of England managers he has a deep mistrust of skilled players. Back in the 1970s the likes of Revie and Greenwood never trusted players like Tony Currie, Alan Hudson or Frank Worthington who were just a skilful as any South American, but seemingly could never be trusted. Like them he prefers the (to slightly mis-quote Super Hans from Peep Show) 'meat and potatoes, straight up and down, penis in the vagina' type players. He is Chris Hughton and sometimes he should be Roberto De Zerbi.
He's like Potter. He's a bit geeky, and this brings out the bully in us (which we express in different ways, from finding them irritating through to wanting to punch them hard in the face). Some of us have constructed a whole universe of confirmation bias to back up our position - won't play Dunk, Palace wanker etc. Every great display is down to the players, and every failure is down to the manager. In contrast, men like Venables (and de Zerbi) get away with murder with their blokiness and/or passion. Who will ever forget 'fucking focus!'?

My view is that it is what it is.
 

Weststander

Members
Aug 25, 2011
53,764
Withdean area
Joe Cole suggests this team, just for this tie.

Pace, directness, Rice/Henderson allows the others to play, knackered Kane given a rest.


77FB161B-FC0A-482D-A9C9-D0C776B68B82.jpeg
 

Brovion

AlecsGrandad
Jul 6, 2003
18,403
He's like Potter. He's a bit geeky, and this brings out the bully in us (which we express in different ways, from finding them irritating through to wanting to punch them hard in the face). Some of us have constructed a whole universe of confirmation bias to back up our position - won't play Dunk, Palace wanker etc. Every great display is down to the players, and every failure is down to the manager. In contrast, men like Venables (and de Zerbi) get away with murder with their blokiness and/or passion. Who will ever forget 'fucking focus!'?

My view is that it is what it is.
Yes, good points. And of course we only got to the semi-finals / finals because it was the worst German side since Christmas 1914, etc etc etc. And no doubt people will say the same things if we do it again.

I would love it, just love it (to quote another England manager I missed off my list who was also much much worse than Southgate) if we won, if for nothing else than to prove that nice decent, guys CAN win. Still don't think it's possible though unless he can occasionally channel his inner 'Keegan'.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
Oct 8, 2003
40,553
Faversham
I think resting some players and giving another few blokes a chance is 100% the correct decision.
How dare you come on this thread and say sensible things about England? ???

This is a make-or-break game, and we have to throw caution to the wind. Play five up front and swamp the Wales with traditional English flair. None of this poncing about, passing it among the full backs (the number of which should be two - left back and right back). Hoof it quickly up to the Big Man up front (Wilson). Bish, bosh, bang. One nil.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

You know nothing about England football. Nothing!

And England should be playing 2, 3, fucking 5! Like we did in the fifties, when men were men.


(and.....exhale).
 

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