England Squad for South Africa

[Marc]

England squad:
MP Vaughan (Yorkshire, capt) Age 29 Tests 50,
ME Trescothick (Somerset) 28 54,
AJ Strauss (Middlesex) 27 7,
MA Butcher (Surrey) 32 68,
RWT Key (Kent) 25 12,
GP Thorpe (Surrey) 35 93,
A Flintoff (Lancashire) 26 40,
GO Jones (Kent, wkt) 28 8,
CMW Read (Nottinghamshire, wkt) 26 11,
AF Giles (Warwickshire) 31 40,
GJ Batty (Worcestershire 26 5,
MJ Hoggard (Yorkshire) 27 33,
SP Jones (Glamorgan) 25 8,
SJ Harmison (Durham) 25 23,
JM Anderson (Lancashire) 22 11,
PD Collingwood (Durham).



Chief selector David Graveney said: "Ultimately we felt that Mark Butcher deserved to retain his place."

Rob Key keeps his place among six specialist batsmen, while there was room for all-rounder Paul Collingwood.

Graveney admitted Bell was considered, but preferred Butcher and Key, who marked his return to the Test team with a double ton against the Windies.

He added: "Butcher deserved to retain his place following outstanding batting performances in the Caribbean during the winter and likewise Rob Key for excellent performances against the West Indies this summer.

"We were impressed by the maturity of Ian Bell on his debut against the West Indies last week and he was considered for one of the specialist batting positions."

 

[CHAPPERS]

Pretty much as expected. Too early for Bell to get a place on the back of one test match performance. With that squad we have a very good chance of winning on South African soil.

 

[Titanic]

What's Collingwood doing in there ? A specialist 12th man ??

 

[CHAPPERS]

What's Collingwood doing in there ? A specialist 12th man ??

I would have preffered to take another specialist batsmen personally but the selectors seem to love Collingwood.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I would have preffered to take another specialist batsmen personally but the selectors seem to love Collingwood.

I thought that they would take another seamer, but Collingwood seams to be the one they keep picking.

I guess as a 12th man, he is such a good fielder that he is good to have around.

 

[Seagull over NZ]

Also on the odd occasion when he has had to step in at the last minute he has done OK.

However, if Freddie gets injured, is he really going to step in as an all rounder? Nope, I don't think so. They will either go with a specialist batsman or bowler. Therefore, why not take Bell as the specialist batsman. Besides, Bell's bowling is probably about as good as Collingwood's anyway and his fielding is pretty decent as well.

Collingwood is the only one I disagree with in that list.

 

[Marshy]

Yep Bell for Collingwood.

 

[Pavilionaire]

A shocking decision to leave out Bell. No excuses, this is rank complacency from the selectors.

He scored something like 5 tons in 5 matches for his county, then gets 70 on his debut (coming into bat with England reeling at 60-odd for 3). What does the guy have to do?

Look at Butcher's test average - around 35 - and look at his age - well into his 30s. I cannot see Butcher winning us the Ashes.

Collingwood is neither a test class bowler nor a test class batsmen. You should never get a place on the strength of your fielding alone.

Also, Chris Read? Wake up, it's not going to happen guys! Matt Prior can count himself very unlucky.

So Prior for Read, Bell for Collingwood and then you've got a good squad.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Also, Chris Read? Wake up, it's not going to happen guys! Matt Prior can count himself very unlucky.

So Prior for Read, Bell for Collingwood and then you've got a good squad.

Err Read is the best keeper around, he has been dropped as his batting was dodgy, I think he deserves the chance to go on this tour to fight for himself.

Prior is not even the best keeper at Sussex.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Ambrose then?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Ambrose then?

Not sure he has actually qualified for England yet.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Butcher is one of the most consistent performers we have and has the mental strength to deal with the Aussies next year.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Read is a good keeper but his batting is woeful. He's already had two separate spells to establish himself in the team and failed both times.

Prior, on the other hand, was a key member of our Championship winning team last year and is getting better and better. The selectors clearly place the ability to get an average of 35-40 at No. 7 above good keeping, so selecting Prior would be consistent with this policy.

The most frustrating thing about England selectors over the years is their persistence with players who just can't cut it. Read is more of the same.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Read is a good keeper but his batting is woeful. He's already had two separate spells to establish himself in the team and failed both times.

Prior, on the other hand, was a key member of our Championship winning team last year and is getting better and better. The selectors clearly place the ability to get an average of 35-40 at No. 7 above good keeping, so selecting Prior would be consistent with this policy.

The most frustrating thing about England selectors over the years is their persistence with players who just can't cut it. Read is more of the same.

I do understand what you are staying, but I think Read was harshly treated. His batting was not great, but surely it would have been better to stick with him in what is a winning side, where confidence is generally high and let him come good, than drop him and potentially have to chuck him in when things are not going so well.

Prior like Jones is suspect and lets a lot go down the leg side. It was interesting watching both Prior and Read behind the stumps in the recent National League game against Notts. Read was streets ahead of Prior in terms of wicket keeping.

 

[Seagull over NZ]

In all fairness to Chris Read he has gone away into county cricket and averaged 60 in the championship (according to Beefy anyway). Beefy reckons Jones could learn quite a bit on tour with someone like Read as he is a great gloveman.

As for Butcher, you seem to forget that he did single-handedly win a test match against the Aussies in 2001 when they were here last. I am not his biggest fan but his record over the last 4 years is excellent and I would still take him.

Bell is young though, I assume he is in the Academy still or onan A tour (is there 1?). Given that 2 weeks ago he wasn't even in the test squad I don't think he would be too devastated not to be left out. He has had a taste for it now and will want more, so will work hard over the winter to get into the side next summer.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Bell is young though, I assume he is in the Academy still or onan A tour (is there 1?). Given that 2 weeks ago he wasn't even in the test squad I don't think he would be too devastated not to be left out. He has had a taste for it now and will want more, so will work hard over the winter to get into the side next summer.

That's a good point, surely Prior would have gone on that tour if there was one?

 

[Gritt23]

I just don't understand how Collingwood is in there ahead of Bell.

It seems to be that we feel Collingwood is the best all-rounder to offer cover for Freddie, but i just don't understand that. i have never liked the approach of looking for an all rounder for the balance of the side. If you don't have one who's good enough then we don't pick one IMHO.

IF Freddie gets injured I would be surprised to see Collingwood play a test as I think we're more likely to go with Key as the extra batsman and offer up Butcher and Vaughan to cover the extra bowling duties. Unless we spend a long time in the field a 5 th bowler rarely bowls more than 15 overs in a test so it need just be someone to offer a bit of a break to the mainline bowlers. Vaughan and Butcher do that adequately for me.

Throw Bell into the mix and we have someone who is an equivalent bowler to Collingwood anyway. Neither are going to skittle a test side out, but would offer a reasonably tight spell while the quicks are resting up for the new ball.

Batting, Bell is far far better than Collingwood. he has proved it in the County Championship this season - to Sussex's cost - and has done all that could have been asked of him in his one test. I expected him to push Key pretty hard in the pecking order.

I have nothing against Collingwood, but i cannot see an argument for him getting picked ahead of Bell.

 

[Storer68]

Collingwood is in only to justify the fact that he has a central contract

I fail to see the justification for taking him, given that he's been injured most of the season.

and I don't think i would have taken Jones on this season's form - he has been pretty poor every time I've seen him this season and I have been impressed by Mohammed (or whatever his name is) at Lancashire. Worth taking a chance on as a fourth seamer....

 

[Uncle Buck]

and I don't think i would have taken Jones on this season's form - he has been pretty poor every time I've seen him this season and I have been impressed by Mohammed (or whatever his name is) at Lancashire. Worth taking a chance on as a fourth seamer....

I guess it is a case of consistency. For the first time in a while we are in a situation where the selectors are not chopping and changing and so Jones is going as he is part of this central core of players.

 

[Chesney Christ]

Collingwood is a tidy batsman, a good bowler and the best fielder in world cricket. He could be our Jonty Rhodes. Rhodes didn't have a great average but got in a successful SA side every time, because he brought so much to the team in the field.

As for the Read/Prior debate I'd always go with Read. Not enough emphasis is placed on the quality of the actual wicket-keeping these days and instead people seem to employ back stops with a great batting average rather than proper wicket keepers. Read is a superb keeper and an improving batsman. He definitely deserves another opportunity. Look at how much Jack Russell brought to the Gloucestershire team, without actually scoring many runs.