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[Albion] Dunk - straight red?



Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
As has been pointed out a number of times now, the interpretation of dissent, and foul and abusive language, has changed this season. You can’t compare the previous 12 seasons with this.
Fine - but every single week, in every single game, we (the viewer, and there are millions of us, many of whom are children, won't somebody think of the children?!) see players shouting F*** OFF at the officials.

Every single game. Maupay did it in the last non-albion game I watched live (Brentford v Arsenal).

We should be at 100+ red cards so far this season, if it was applied consistently.
 

Littlemo

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2022
1,075
Is it not OK to at least question what we are seeing? Its not as if its a direct accusation of corruption

He has made lots of comments across a few threads basically insinuating match-fixing and corruption, I replied to him about it the other day. Fans are bad enough already without bringing unfair and completely unsubstantiated rumours like that into the conversation. If he had evidence, then give it to the FA, don’t make snidey comments on a social media board.
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
58,919
The Fatherland
On a related note. I was minding my own business in Mikkeller one afternoon when a rowdy stag party deservedly got their marching orders. When leaving, one member of the group looked my way, pointed, and shouted 'bald ****' at me. It's not very nice.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
On a related note. I was minding my own business in Mikkeller one afternoon when a rowdy stag party deservedly got their marching orders. When leaving, one member of the group looked my way, pointed, and shouted 'bald ****' at me. It's not very nice.
This is incredibly Larry David - endlessly getting called a bald asshole, often just being caught in the crossfire.
 

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,635
GOSBTS
Fine - but every single week, in every single game, we (the viewer, and there are millions of us, many of whom are children, won't somebody think of the children?!) see players shouting F*** OFF at the officials.

Every single game. Maupay did it in the last non-albion game I watched live (Brentford v Arsenal).

We should be at 100+ red cards so far this season, if it was applied consistently.
There’s a thin line IMO. When I reffed things like f*** sake, that’s not a foul, etc I’d say was dissent

Things that were directly aimed at you as insult would be a red. Lewis knew immediately he’s overstepped the mark so not sure why so many are trying to defend him.
 

pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,090
West, West, West Sussex
Things that were directly aimed at you as insult would be a red. Lewis knew immediately he’s overstepped the mark so not sure why so many are trying to defend him.

This. You can clearly see Lewis hold up his hand in apology, then offered Taylor a handshake. He knew he was in trouble.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
Things that were directly aimed at you as insult would be a red.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

"F**K OFF!!" shouted clearly in the direction of an official not count for you?

There is TONNES of that most weeks.
 

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,635
GOSBTS
"f*** off!!" when screaming at an official not count for you?

There is TONNES of that most weeks.
Nope it wouldn’t have for me, just a yellow. And I’d probably have sworn back
 


Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,635
GOSBTS
You just said things directly aimed at you would be a red!?
Shouting something at a decision is different to personally insulting someone yes.
 

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,394
Back in Sussex
He has made lots of comments across a few threads basically insinuating match-fixing and corruption, I replied to him about it the other day. Fans are bad enough already without bringing unfair and completely unsubstantiated rumours like that into the conversation. If he had evidence, then give it to the FA, don’t make snidey comments on a social media board.

That's the nub of it, yes.

If someone makes a direct accusation about intentional corruption, then they've gone too far on a site that has my name above the virtual door.

I don't want to end up in court where the onus is on me to prove that a published statement is true, because I don't have that proof. Similarly we want to protect people from themselves because I don't want someone to be potentially financially-ruined for life because they got irate about a football match and posted something on here that comes back to bite them on the arse.

NSC is widely-read and observed, and whilst the chances of legal action are slim, I'd rather reduce that risk to as close to zero as possible.

If you want to make direct and categorical accusations about individuals or organisations, please do it somewhere else. Be aware of the potential repercussions you may face too.
 

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
Shouting something at a decision is different to personally insulting someone yes.
They're not shouting at the decision. They're shouting at the referee. They're telling the referee to f*** off.

I struggle to see how that's less bad than calling someone a bellend.
 


Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,068
The first one is a joke of a yellow and provokes the comment for the red. ‘Over there’ is fine and he wasn’t right up in his face aggressive at all - Taylor was walking past him. It seems u fair given how many players do similar and get away with it. Taylor is a jobsworth twat.
 

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,635
GOSBTS
They're not shouting at the decision. They're shouting at you. They're telling you to f*** off. I struggle to see how that's less bad than calling someone a bellend.

Even Lewis knew he crossed the line immediately the time compared to others, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing about it.
 

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
Even Lewis knew he crossed the line immediately the time compared to others, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing about it.
I'm not arguing about Dunk really - his was probably a red.

My point is that I cannot get my head around players (Wayne Rooney made a whole career of it) who countless times scream "F**K OFF" at referees and linos, all picked up by the cameras for the kids to see at home, and are never ever once picked up on it. Should be an immediate yellow at minimum.

It's utterly baffling and hugely inconsistent, and that is the most frustrating thing. Apply the rules or don't.
 

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,831
Hookwood - Nr Horley
They're not shouting at the decision. They're shouting at the referee. They're telling the referee to f*** off.

I struggle to see how that's less bad than calling someone a bellend.
If someone tells a ref to f off then that's saying they don't agree with a decision, ( dissent), you're a f***er ref is foul and abusive language directed at the character of the ref - a totally different thing.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,603
Brighton
If someone tells a ref to f off then that's saying they don't agree with a decision, ( dissent), you're a f***er ref is foul and abusive language directed at the character of the ref - a totally different thing.
Not necessarily - you are guessing what they mean. They quite often probably mean f*** off, because they think the ref is a C word. It's definitely foul and abusive language, and likely directed at the character of the ref.

A player could say you're a fucker ref because they didn't like the decision they made - can see it either way.
 

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2022
4,593
Taylor escalated a situation, he is trained to deal with.
He should have done better too.
Giving him a free pass won't improve the standard of refereeing, which is currently at a very low ebb.
He should have been slower to show the first yellow and talk the situation down/ warn Dunk to move away from the monitor IMO - and subsuently warn him that his language is getting close to him being sent off. It seems the yellow and red were shown in very quick succession- that’s not a good look imo - Taylor should have done less to escalate the situation and been more proactive in managing the situation than being reactive. Something along the lines of:

‘”You need to be aware that you're coming pretty close to the line of what I might consider OFFINABUS, calm down before you cross that line." That is absolutely fine and good, proactive refereeing.’


Taylor’s record (as with some other high profile refs) isn’t squeaky clean this season (or any previous ones) - his refereeing of the Europa League final was a match where he also lost control (imo) apparently became trigger happy with yellow cards which sadly culminated in him being verbally abused by Mourhino and fans after the match. He was demoted to refereeing the Championship in October for errors then reinstated to a big fixture earlier this month so clearly has the backing of the FA but at what cost?

If players and managers in the sport have lost faith in any referee, even if the referee makes the correct decisions in subsequent matches there will be those who will already have confirmation bias against that ref with regard to his ability to arrive at correct decisions at key stages of the game so every narrow margined decision will be blamed rightly or wrongly on incompetency - it is a downward spiral that is difficult to reverse by simply punishing those who are reacting to poor refereeing.

Echoes of De Zerbi?

“I thought it was a terrible on-field decision and I thought it was unbelievably surprising that it wasn’t overturned. More disappointment. I feel like I waste my time speaking [to the officials] so I will stop speaking to them. Until they improve the level of what they produce, I have no time for them."
Gary O’Neil after Wolves v Newcastle on 28 October 2023


 
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