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[Politics] Dear Rishi Sunak...



beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
34,903
"Electricity demand reached a record low in 2022 of 320.7 TWh, down by 3.8 per cent from 2021. Electricity demand has declined year-on-year since 2015, apart from a slight increase between 2020 and 2021 with as demand recovered from the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic."

There is no need for a doubling in demand and UKPN and the National Grid have spoken at length on Radio 4 and elsewhere to make clear they will be able to deliver the upgrades needed. Providing of course government dont flip flop with policy.
currently about 50% of that electricity demand is met from nukes and renewables*. so to get near net zero we need to double the installed capacity of non-fossil generation. thats before counting the additional demand from moving heating and transport from oil and gas. i have no doubt National Grid will do their part if given the opportunity, the generation is not there or planned. now scale out the rest of europe, where some countries are increasing their use of coal due to gas supply issues.

*when the wind blows. drops to about 30% when there's high pressure system like last few weeks.
 

Seagull27

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
3,254
Bristol
Maybe when the largest polluting countries with far more output than the UK do something, then the UK can too.

Why should we have to pay huge prices for 2nd electric cars compared to petrol ones and expensive home heating pumps instead of gas boilers.

Also , need millions more working electric vehicle chargers first.
If we lead on this change then we're furthest ahead in terms of research and will be leading the industry for years to come. That creates huge opportunities for companies/jobs and eventually the economy.

But as usual, a politician puts short term gain (i.e. his chances of winning the next election) ahead of long term security for the country.
 

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 7, 2003
11,861
Brighton
Maybe when the largest polluting countries with far more output than the UK do something, then the UK can too.

Why should we have to pay huge prices for 2nd electric cars compared to petrol ones and expensive home heating pumps instead of gas boilers.

Also , need millions more working electric vehicle chargers first.
Is the wrong answer.

If you want to be a leader in new technology, you lead.
 

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 7, 2003
11,861
Brighton
Typical Brighton political bubble throwing it's toys out of the pram over slight delays to allow for those less fortunate to try to save money and for the country to attempt to regain stability to actually be able to afford net zero!
The Brighton bubble complaining about a government rejecting targets bought in by Boris Johnson?
 

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,687
Uckfield
Maybe when the largest polluting countries with far more output than the UK do something, then the UK can too.

Why should we have to pay huge prices for 2nd electric cars compared to petrol ones and expensive home heating pumps instead of gas boilers.

Also , need millions more working electric vehicle chargers first.

Wrong answer. The projection is that by 2030, brand new EVs will have reached price-parity with brand new ICE vehicles - and be cheaper to run. Likewise on heat pumps, for an awful lot of homes out there they're cheaper to run. The government's own advice from recent years is that the policies Sunak is going to reverse are the right policies - pushing them back will have a net detrimental impact to the economy and specifically a detrimental impact to the average working family by causing the cost of living to stay higher for longer.

I think that the infrastructure is better than many might think and I also think that the way the infrastructure will improve is through necessity and investment. I don't think the way to do it is to dissuade the big market players from making the strategic, longer term investments in their EV programme. We should be targeting any company who wants to invest in their EV range and wants to invest in the UK. I have absolutely no idea why every car in Ireland and Isle of Wight and Isle of Man aren't electric already. Surely it wouldn't take a huge amount of infrastucture investment to put charger ports where they need to be in order to ensure that range is never a concern and there must be some inherent value in recycling their existing cars?

I think the government needs to be a leader on this and not a passive follower.

Exactly this. The 2030 target has been driving investment and R&D that's accelerated our economy moving in this direction. Rowing back on it is a bad idea. Things like vehicle-to-grid power transfer is starting to hit the market now, by the time we get to 2030 V2G is going to be a part of helping to balance the grid. And it'll also provide more homes with the capacity to reduce their reliance on the grid during peak hours, with vehicles being charged during low-peak periods (while helping balance the grid) and then discharging to the home during peak (again, helping balance the grid). And for those of us living in homes with solar generation, the car charges off the solar during the day (as long as it's parked at home) and discharges during peak, helping to remove that household from grid demand.

EV tech is moving fast, as is the infrastructure to support it. Pushing back by even 5 years is going to be a massive mistake IMO. UK needs to continue to push on, not give up the hard won position we're in now where 2030 is achievable.

Typical Brighton political bubble throwing it's toys out of the pram over slight delays to allow for those less fortunate to try to save money and for the country to attempt to regain stability to actually be able to afford net zero!

Targeting net zero is more affordable than not doing it. You've got this the wrong way around. Renewable energy generation is cheaper than from fossils, the sooner we can eliminate fossils the better.



I'm hoping someone on the right of British politics paid a lot of attention to what happened in the last Australian election. Or even the Lib Dems. Sunak's opening the door wide to anyone who wants to have a go at establishing an economically right-of-centre, pro-environment political grouping. In Australia it was the "Teal Independents" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_independents. UK political landscape looks ripe for the picking to me for a similar group to establish itself.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
46,584
Faversham
I think that the infrastructure is better than many might think and I also think that the way the infrastructure will improve is through necessity and investment. I don't think the way to do it is to dissuade the big market players from making the strategic, longer term investments in their EV programme. We should be targeting any company who wants to invest in their EV range and wants to invest in the UK. I have absolutely no idea why every car in Ireland and Isle of Wight and Isle of Man aren't electric already. Surely it wouldn't take a huge amount of infrastucture investment to put charger ports where they need to be in order to ensure that range is never a concern and there must be some inherent value in recycling their existing cars?

I think the government needs to be a leader on this and not a passive follower.
It's a dog whistle to all the right-thinking voters of this country who think that enough is enough. Ulez, pandering to EU emissions directives, people coming over here and taking our jobs. Etc. Vote conservative for a return to Freedom. Time to end this disgraceful 13 years of socialist rule.
 

Randy McNob

Now go home and get your f#cking Shinebox
Jun 13, 2020
4,305
They will have an agreed connection with UKPN, it just wont be in place yet as network reinforcement will be undertaken. There has been a significant role out in EV charging, including at existing garages and this should have (and needs to be) improved to compare with elsewhere.
..im sure there were plenty saying I wont buy a car in the 1950s...i might run out of fuel...and people did, they ran out of fuel and cars broke down all the time, then more people bought cars and the range improved as did the infrastructure, very quickly.
The advantage now is the locations for the infrastructure is in place, the range and performance of EVs is changing all the time and by 2030 there wont be EVs with less than 300 miles of range that can charge quickly, with infrastructure in place to meet needs.
I have an EV - i largely charge at work, or occasionally at home. I can get to the Amex and back, from Hythe on a single charge with plenty to spare. The only time i need to charge away from home is if im going more than 250 miles in a day. Which isnt really very often....ive done 11,000 miles this year and have paid to charge a handful of times, including going to norwich and back in a day. It really isnt that stressful.
The only issue here is not everyone can have a home charger, like people in flats, so rely on street charging, sometimes it's not always available.
 

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 7, 2003
11,861
Brighton
Oh dear. There are so many lefties and Greens on here.
Left wing green Boris Johnson targets!

Wake up man! This country only wants to lead in one thing - being last.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
34,903
Wrong answer. The projection is that by 2030, brand new EVs will have reached price-parity with brand new ICE vehicles - and be cheaper to run. Likewise on heat pumps, for an awful lot of homes out there they're cheaper to run. The government's own advice from recent years is that the policies Sunak is going to reverse are the right policies - pushing them back will have a net detrimental impact to the economy and specifically a detrimental impact to the average working family by causing the cost of living to stay higher for longer.



Exactly this. The 2030 target has been driving investment and R&D that's accelerated our economy moving in this direction. Rowing back on it is a bad idea. Things like vehicle-to-grid power transfer is starting to hit the market now, by the time we get to 2030 V2G is going to be a part of helping to balance the grid. And it'll also provide more homes with the capacity to reduce their reliance on the grid during peak hours, with vehicles being charged during low-peak periods (while helping balance the grid) and then discharging to the home during peak (again, helping balance the grid). And for those of us living in homes with solar generation, the car charges off the solar during the day (as long as it's parked at home) and discharges during peak, helping to remove that household from grid demand.

EV tech is moving fast, as is the infrastructure to support it. Pushing back by even 5 years is going to be a massive mistake IMO. UK needs to continue to push on, not give up the hard won position we're in now where 2030 is achievable.



Targeting net zero is more affordable than not doing it. You've got this the wrong way around. Renewable energy generation is cheaper than from fossils, the sooner we can eliminate fossils the better.



I'm hoping someone on the right of British politics paid a lot of attention to what happened in the last Australian election. Or even the Lib Dems. Sunak's opening the door wide to anyone who wants to have a go at establishing an economically right-of-centre, pro-environment political grouping. In Australia it was the "Teal Independents" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_independents. UK political landscape looks ripe for the picking to me for a similar group to establish itself.
we're all fine then, we'll move to the EVs and heat pumps to take advantage of the better economics. no R&D or infrastructure investment is wasted and those that produce to earlier plan will benefit from first mover advantage.
 

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 7, 2003
11,861
Brighton
The only issue here is not everyone can have a home charger, like people in flats, so rely on street charging, sometimes it's not always available.
That's not an issue. It's a simple challenge. But looks like we won't be answering it and therefore not benefiting from any of the thought leadership.
 

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