Conveyancing Solicitor help/advice

[saltdeanseagull1]

I am in the process of moving and our buyers Solicitor has requested that I pay for an indemnity policy to protect his clients as there has been a conservatory built (before I moved in) that contrevenes a covanent.
I have contacted the Solicitor I used when I purchased the house to see if they got an imdenity policy when I purchased 5 years ago.
So far my old Solicitors are being really unhelpful and telling me my case note have been archieved and that I need to request them in writing. I therefore sent then an Email yesterday requesting they get my file but I have not even had an acknowledgment.
I have all my paper work that was supplied when I moved and there is no sign of an indemnity, so I have a very large suspician thay over looked it.

My question is, if as I fear they did not get an indemnity policy can I claim on my old solicitor to stump up the cost (just over £300) as I dont see its my fault and I paid my old Solicitor to make these enquiries.

So if there are any legal types on please give me your views on how I should tackle this.

By the way it is not a local firm.
Thanks

 

[Triggaaar]

I am in the process of moving and our buyers Solicitor has requested that I pay for an indemnity policy to protect his clients as there has been a conservatory built (before I moved in) that contrevenes a covanent.

Bloody typical. Some solicitors are more pedantic than others.

I don't know if you can claim on your old solicitor for not picking up on the problem, you'd have to read all your original correspondence with them, but the bottom line is that you can choose to pay it, or tell the buyers not to be silly and don't bother, letting them decide if it's important. It won't be important, it will be nonsense.

I would ask for details of the covenant and how it has been breached.
How long has the conservatory been there?

 

[saltdeanseagull1]

Bloody typical. Some solicitors are more pedantic than others.

I don't know if you can claim on your old solicitor for not picking up on the problem, you'd have to read all your original correspondence with them, but the bottom line is that you can choose to pay it, or tell the buyers not to be silly and don't bother, letting them decide if it's important. It won't be important, it will be nonsense.

I would ask for details of the covenant and how it has been breached.
How long has the conservatory been there?

Thanks for response, I have seen the covenant. Basically it dates back to 1955 when the house was bult and in essence says something along the lines of, " no other buliding to be built on the land without the consent of Saltdean estates" The conservatory was here when we moved in, I would say it is at least 10 years old, maybe even older. I imagine as it looks I have to pay they will probaly insist the policy is taken out. Do you know what happens if I refuse to pay it??

 

[cloud]

I had this when I moved house last year.

Because of what happened with chancel repairs a few years back, solicitors are now scouring every last bit of small print for things like this.

When I bought my new place, I had to take out two bespoke indemnity policies - one because the conservatory had been built without Building Regs approval (though it had planning permission), and the insurance covers the possibility that the council might make an enquiry into it some day. The second policy is because I have right of way over someone else's property to get to mine.

In both cases, I insisted that the policy would last in perpetuity (or for a very long time, can't remember), and also that it could be passed on to any future purchasers.

With the flat that I sold, there was something that the buyer needed an indemnity policy for. Since I had bought the flat 7 years previously using the same solicitor, I said that they should pay for the policy, since they hadn't done their due dilgence the first time round.

So in the end, the solicitors paid for the policy on my sale, and the seller paid for the two policies on my purchase (she was very keen to sell).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Its opportunism and brinkmanship - tell them to get stuffed. If your solicitor is any good they will resist.

 

[Triggaaar]

Basically it dates back to 1955 when the house was bult and in essence says something along the lines of, " no other buliding to be built on the land without the consent of Saltdean estates" The conservatory was here when we moved in, I would say it is at least 10 years old, maybe even older. I imagine as it looks I have to pay they will probaly insist the policy is taken out. Do you know what happens if I refuse to pay it??

That covenant will not be enforceable, 100%. If you can keep the buyers happy and help them understand it means nothing then all will be good. The problem is if the buyers are the scared type, and basically refuse to buy your place without the covenant. That would be silly, but it's their choice so it can happen.

As for chasing your original solicitor though, I have no idea.

 

[Triggaaar]

Its opportunism and brinkmanship

Actually it's not really, as they're not asking for money off, they just want him to pay for the insurance, which isn't needed. It's over officious solicitors.

 

[saltdeanseagull1]

That covenant will not be enforceable, 100%. If you can keep the buyers happy and help them understand it means nothing then all will be good. The problem is if the buyers are the scared type, and basically refuse to buy your place without the covenant. That would be silly, but it's their choice so it can happen.

As for chasing your original solicitor though, I have no idea.

I guess they have me over a barrell as if they insist on it I have no choice but to pay for it. Unfortunatly Iam not in direct contact my self with the buyers, this is the solicitor who has picked it up so Im guesing he will insist it is arranged. Do you think its worth getting my estate agent to speak to them and explain it is nonsence ?

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I agree with the responses about historical matters that the current owner merely inherited.

However a word of caution if the conservatory was built by you as the current owner, but you don't have evidence to show that a covenant wasn't relaxed. Paying for the one off insurance policy is the best way to resolve it, especially if you have got as far as agreeing a sale and presumably have a purchase of your own pending. If you dont sort it now the sale could well fall through. We had a similar problem at a fairly advanced stage of a house sale that included an extension that a covenant applied to. Although it felt a bit like being blackmailed it was 'our problem' so we bit the bullet, paid the premium and the sale went through ok. Looking back it wasn't significant in the overall scheme of things.

 

[saltdeanseagull1]

I agree with the responses about historical matters that the current owner merely inherited.

However a word of caution if the conservatory was built by you as the current owner, but you don't have evidence to show that a covenant wasn't relaxed. Paying for the one off insurance policy is the best way to resolve it, especially if you have got as far as agreeing a sale and presumably have a purchase of your own pending. If you dont sort it now the sale could well fall through. We had a similar problem at a fairly advanced stage of a house sale that included an extension that a covenant applied to. Although it felt a bit like being blackmailed it was 'our problem' so we bit the bullet, paid the premium and the sale went through ok. Looking back it wasn't significant in the overall scheme of things.

Yes I agree £300 is not a massive amount in the grand scheme of things and my Mrs. says exactly what you have said just pay it and be done with it. But it just frustrates me that I have to piss away £300 just like that GGRRRR! Hopefully this will be the only thing that comes up!

 

[Triggaaar]

I guess they have me over a barrell as if they insist on it I have no choice but to pay for it.

Not really, that's just like saying you can tell the buyers that if they want the place they can pay another £1k, or vice versa. If you were really happy with the price you got, you may just want to pay and get it sold (still worth trying not to pay though) whereas if you were as low as you could go maybe you'll draw a line. How keen are the buyers?

Unfortunatly Iam not in direct contact my self with the buyers, this is the solicitor who has picked it up so Im guesing he will insist it is arranged.

He can't insist, all he can do is advise his clients.

Do you think its worth getting my estate agent to speak to them and explain it is nonsence ?

You could do it via the estate agent or via your solicitor, either can work, it depends on all the personalities, whether the buyers are first timers or used to this sort of thing, whether you're paying your solicitor a flat fee or by the hour etc.

However a word of caution if the conservatory was built by you as the current owner

He said it wasn't.

you don't have evidence to show that a covenant wasn't relaxed. Paying for the one off insurance policy is the best way to resolve it

No, the best way is to get them to agree it doesn't matter.

If you dont sort it now the sale could well fall through.

If it's in danger of falling through you should have time to pay if you want to, it shouldn't just collapse with no warning.

We had a similar problem at a fairly advanced stage of a house sale that included an extension that a covenant applied to. Although it felt a bit like being blackmailed it was 'our problem' so we bit the bullet, paid the premium and the sale went through ok. Looking back it wasn't significant in the overall scheme of things.

Indeed, it's often small compared to the overall deal, but then most things are and you can't give up on all of them.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Yes I agree £300 is not a massive amount in the grand scheme of things and my Mrs. says exactly what you have said just pay it and be done with it. But it just frustrates me that I have to piss away £300 just like that GGRRRR! Hopefully this will be the only thing that comes up!

I can remember debating that frustration with our Solicitor and asking 'what if we say bollocks and take a chance on it?'. The Solicitor said that because of the legal ruling this is now such a routine part of conveyancing searches that our purchasers Solicitor will make an issue of it and the sale would probably fall through. So we channelled our anger towards the original legal ruling over chancel repairs which created this expensive anomaly. The only winners are Solicitors and insurers.

 

[cloud]

so we bit the bullet, paid the premium and the sale went through ok. Looking back it wasn't significant in the overall scheme of things.

Yes I agree. In my case, I thought it would be best having it so I don't encounter any problems when I come to sell the place.

If £300 is too much, you could ask the other party if they will split the cost 50-50?

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm currently sat in my conservatory. It doesn't have planning permission or buildings regs, which I took into account when we bought the place.

Look at it another way, if no covenant was needed, but the buyers asked for another £300 off the price because they were short of money, what would you say?

1) Try and get away without paying
2) If 1 fails and the sale is a good deal, pay it. If it's not that great a deal and you think they'll pay it, let them pay it if they're so keen on pointless insurance.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Not really, that's just like saying you can tell the buyers that if they want the place they can pay another £1k, or vice versa. If you were really happy with the price you got, you may just want to pay and get it sold (still worth trying not to pay though) whereas if you were as low as you could go maybe you'll draw a line. How keen are the buyers?

He can't insist, all he can do is advise his clients.
You could do it via the estate agent or via your solicitor, either can work, it depends on all the personalities, whether the buyers are first timers or used to this sort of thing, whether you're paying your solicitor a flat fee or by the hour etc.

He said it wasn't.No, the best way is to get them to agree it doesn't matter.
If it's in danger of falling through you should have time to pay if you want to, it shouldn't just collapse with no warning.
Indeed, it's often small compared to the overall deal, but then most things are and you can't give up on all of them.

I know the OP said 'he wasn't' hence in the 2nd paragraph I started with 'However' because other NSCers reading this thread may want to know not to ignore the chancel ruling if you as the current owner built the offending conservatory/extension, because the buck stops with you. Not a case of 'giving up on all of them', merely deciding to take a pragmatic view. The Solicitor (who has always been excellent) gave us his best advice, we opted to take it, having done so the issue was sorted legally so didn't give it a second thereafter. £200 on the indemnity or potentially thosands more if the sale falls through and you start again, probnably only to hit the same issue again. Seemed like a no brainer and we moved on.

Whats the saying? 'You pay your money you take your choice'. We are all big boys and girls on NSC and presumably happy to live with our decisons - that includes whether you choose to ignore a legal obstacle - or deal with it.

 

[Triggaaar]

Whats the saying? 'You pay your money you take your choice'.

Indeed you do.

We are all big boys and girls on NSC and presumably happy to live with our decisons - that includes whether you choose to ignore a legal obstacle - or deal with it.

No one is saying to ignore a legal obstacle. Getting the other side to buy the house without the covenant would deal with issue, there's no come-back.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Thanks for response, I have seen the covenant. Basically it dates back to 1955 when the house was bult and in essence says something along the lines of, " no other buliding to be built on the land without the consent of Saltdean estates" The conservatory was here when we moved in, I would say it is at least 10 years old, maybe even older. I imagine as it looks I have to pay they will probaly insist the policy is taken out. Do you know what happens if I refuse to pay it??

Have you thought about getting retrospective "consent" from Saltdean Estates, or whatever they're called now? We had a similar issue with an earlier extension to our last house and the original builders from 1964, Croudace; I wrote them a letter and it was all sorted in less than a week.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I guess they have me over a barrell as if they insist on it I have no choice but to pay for it. Unfortunatly Iam not in direct contact my self with the buyers, this is the solicitor who has picked it up so Im guesing he will insist it is arranged. Do you think its worth getting my estate agent to speak to them and explain it is nonsence ?

Firstly given how old the conservatory is you don't really need to worry about planning permission - the time has long passed that the council could really do anything about it.

Secondly, if I were you I would write back to the solicitor pointing out that it's their clients that will gain the protection from the insurance not you and as such they should pay for it. After all, will you be paying for their house insurance just in case the correct door locks aren't fitted ? If it comes to it, but don't do this straight away, offer to pay say £100 of the cost. The buyers will be keen to move so may well back down anyway.

This is the problem with many solicitors - they forget it's their client's wishes they should be following ( barring any breaking of the law ) and too many people take a solicitors word as gospel.

 

[mune ni kamome]

You haven't mentioned your current solicitor. What do they advise?

 

[Chicken Run]

Firstly given how old the conservatory is you don't really need to worry about planning permission - the time has long passed that the council could really do anything about it.

Secondly, if I were you I would write back to the solicitor pointing out that it's their clients that will gain the protection from the insurance not you and as such they should pay for it. After all, will you be paying for their house insurance just in case the correct door locks aren't fitted ? If it comes to it, but don't do this straight away, offer to pay say £100 of the cost. The buyers will be keen to move so may well back down anyway.

This is the problem with many solicitors - they forget it's their client's wishes they should be following ( barring any breaking of the law ) and too many people take a solicitors word as gospel.

Dont assume it's the clients wishes, my experience tells me me it could be the lender who the buyers solicitor acts for aswell!!