Communist Britain

[beorhthelm]

I've heard directly from NHS staff that patients who have died with Coronavirus symptoms have had pneumonia put on their death certificate.

point is recording the presence of Covid-19, not necessarily as the cause of death.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Re getting fitter, based upon recent sales of ready meals and pot noodles, I think it is unlikely.

 

[Bakero]

That's how COVID-19 kills you.

It will still have been recorded.

I'm well aware that most of the serious cases feature pneumonia. Save your facepalms.

point is recording the presence of Covid-19, not necessarily as the cause of death.

The point is they're not recording it as patients are dying without being tested, which will inevitably lead to under reporting. As Gary Nelson's LF said, the same thing is happening in Japan and no doubt elsewhere.

 

[Durlston]

Apologies to anyone that found this thread annoying, anxiety-starting and downright stupid. I don't normally start threads and this was not much of a help when everyone has troubles.

Having been out today, it certainly doesn't feel like a communist country. Anything but. Just people being considerate to others and keeping their distance between the tape.

So I'd like to sincerely say sorry to anyone for this depressing thread. Mods have the right to delete it if they want. We all have to pull together through this dark period in our lives.

Thank you. Best wishes to everyone and stay healthy.

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm well aware that most of the serious cases feature pneumonia. Save your facepalms.



The point is they're not recording it as patients are dying without being tested, which will inevitably lead to under reporting. As Gary Nelson's LF said, the same thing is happening in Japan and no doubt elsewhere.

i see you point now, if they arent testing some patients.

 

[Bakero]

i see you point now, if they arent testing some patients.

I hadn't explicitly said it in my original post as it was mentioned in the one I was replying too.

 

[Bakero]

Apologies to anyone that found this thread annoying, anxiety-starting and downright stupid. I don't normally start threads and this was not much of a help when everyone has troubles.

Having been out today, it certainly doesn't feel like a communist country. Anything but. Just people being considerate to others and keeping their distance between the tape.

So I'd like to sincerely say sorry to anyone for this depressing thread. Mods have the right to delete it if they want. We all have to pull together through this dark period in our lives.

Thank you. Best wishes to everyone and stay healthy.

Don't worry about it. People have started many threads much stupider than this one over the years

 

[peterward]

Russia (now a nationalist dictatorship run by Putin, with rigged politics) - their situation was covered in detail on LBC yesterday. Due to Putin’s insecure obsession in trying to make the West look inferior so that Russia looks a bit stronger, no one should trust their COVID-19 data. They do not want the rest of the World to know that anything is awry there.

And Putin is shit scared of a lockdown and the economic fallout to the regular guy on the street with tanking oil prices. For this reason the state sanctioned lies continue as the official narrative is, it's just pnemounia deaths that have increased by over 300%..... For as rigged and deliberately deceitful it all is, it's because imho he still fears an uprising of the people as in other colour revolutions.

 

[Swansman]

Apologies to anyone that found this thread annoying, anxiety-starting and downright stupid. I don't normally start threads and this was not much of a help when everyone has troubles.

Having been out today, it certainly doesn't feel like a communist country. Anything but. Just people being considerate to others and keeping their distance between the tape.

So I'd like to sincerely say sorry to anyone for this depressing thread. Mods have the right to delete it if they want. We all have to pull together through this dark period in our lives.

Thank you. Best wishes to everyone and stay healthy.

Tell me more about what a communist country "feels" like. Which communist country are you referring to?

And Putin is shit scared of a lockdown and the economic fallout to the regular guy on the street with tanking oil prices. For this reason the state sanctioned lies continue as the official narrative is, it's just pnemounia deaths that have increased by over 300%..... For as rigged and deliberately deceitful it all is, it's because imho he still fears an uprising of the people as in other colour revolutions.

Source: BAE Systems media division.

Technically, China is a communist country.

They have a type of communist one-party system but they dont have a communist society.

 

[Weststander]

And Putin is shit scared of a lockdown and the economic fallout to the regular guy on the street with tanking oil prices. For this reason the state sanctioned lies continue as the official narrative is, it's just pnemounia deaths that have increased by over 300%..... For as rigged and deliberately deceitful it all is, it's because imho he still fears an uprising of the people as in other colour revolutions.

Anyone who believes Putin's Russia is a COVID-19 'free' utopia is something to admire, needs to rethink. Journalists murdered and attacked, homosexuals attacked and murdered, ethnic minorities murdered or imprisoned, dissidents murdered by the state or sentenced to long and brutal prison terms on phoney charges.

 

[middletoenail]

Anyone who believes Putin's Russia is a COVID-19 'free' utopia is something to admire, needs to rethink. Journalists murdered and attacked, homosexuals attacked and murdered, ethnic minorities murdered or imprisoned, dissidents murdered by the state or sentenced to long and brutal prison terms on phoney charges.

Russia is going to have big problems. They travel extensively and surely they'll be untold amounts of imported cases?

 

[peterward]

I dont think TS know what communism is so I'll just leave it that.



... says the Western military–industrial–media complex, always horny for war, always eager to present Russia as dangerous, an enemy that at some point needs to be crushed - bombed into democracy and robbed of their natural resources, the true story of the "peaceful" NATO.

Sure. Russia could be lying. China could be lying. Singapore could be lying. Japan could be lying. South and North Korea could be lying. It is possible: after all, we've always been told most of these countries are inferior and medieval compared to our perfect and progressive western world. But you should at least take into consideration that their strategy of actually doing something immediatly so far has been working out better than the European strategy of sitting on our asses and rolling our thumbs until possibly hundreds of thousands got infected.

In no way are they trying to hide that "something is awry". Putin said less than one week ago that they had a "massive - I would like to underscore - massive penetration and spread of the infection in Russia", but since they, unlike some, learned from their "friends in Korea, Japan and China", they took immediate measures (like extensive tracing of transmittion chains beginning already in January) and the situation is now "generally under control". In other words, they did what they've done in Asia and what we very obviously failed to do here.

Still, they know its going to be a problem, despite the measures. They know it will spread. Putin and other parts of the government are saying it out loud and declaring their preparations.

This mechanism must be transparent and fair, and I am asking the government to make decisions

This is some of the domestic measures taken in Russia, none of which imply they are denying there will is and will be problems:
- Closed all schools and banning outdoor events in Moscow and also restricting indoor events to max 50 people
- Multi tier tracing to track and cut infection chains
- Banning entry for foreign nationals
- Paying elderly a small but not insignifcant fee to stay at home
- Constructing a new coronavirus hospital in Moscow housing up to 600 patients
- Increased salaries for all medical workers and scienticts working fighting the virus.
- Allowing online sales of non-prescription medicines while at the same time take measures to stop people from taking advantage of the situation by selling counterfeit medicines.
- Make government and telecompanies allocate resources to provide free access from PC:s to important Russian websites in order to buy medicines, study online, get public services and entertain themselves while in quarantine.
- Develop smoth cooperation between government, the Bank of Russia and all regions, because and create new cooperation mechanisms, because they need to run like clockwork.
- Relieve entrepreneurs of excessive inspections as much as possible.
- If and when it is necessary to announce unscheduled vacations or temporarily close down schools etc, children must not be left alone.

As for Putins "insecure obsession to make the West look weaker" - have you seen his speeches, press conferences and lengthy interviews with him, or do you just listen to Western media? He is always honest about the Wests superior military power and his worries about NATO military bases in neighbouring countries.
They dont want war, we do. To swallow what the Western establishment is saying and developing russiophobia could very well some day lead to something even worse than this nasty virus.

/Kind regards from an eternal peacemonger.

So my source is the BAE systems media department?

What nonsense, you're deluded.

You want to stop reading RT and believing the troll factory bollox popping up all over the place, they obviously caught one goon on their hook ready to perpetuate misinformation.

I am astounded that you could spout such utter garbage. I am married to a Ukrainian, where my wife comes from almost 20,000 civilians have been killed by Putins military without insignia, you can hear shelling just 10km from my mother in Laws house. The whole of that part of Ukraine is ethnic Russian, who have all turned their backs on Putin, and we know now literally 10's of real Russians who live in Russia, my wifes best friend, she communicates with multiple times per day every single day is a Russian living in Moscow and trust me they know, as I'm sure do many others who arent in the elder, USSR nostalgia group or deluded idiots like you, that what they hear is a "narrative" and not real.
They are all proud Russians, proud of their heritage of their history who live through a system of total Kremlin state control of all media, but they still know Putin is a both a thief and compulsive liar and can separate the Kremlin from Russia in general, something you obviously cant.

How can you be so out of touch with reality? As to be an apologist for a mass murderer, a non stop compulsive liar who murders any opposing voice, who invades his neighbours, steals territory, shoots down airliners, murders with WMDs on UK streets, sends his long range bombers to buzz our coastline weekly, spreads never ending lies, propaganda and misinformation around the world and yet always denies everything.

You think he's a poor misunderstood man, fighting off the circling NATO? Thats the siege mentality he wishes to create, its utter garbage.

The baltic countries willingly wanted to join NATO, we know a Lithuanian who was involved in Politics there and who lives in UK, who understands deeply the Baltic history both pre, during and post Soviet era. They were not forced or coaxed by the west..... Georgia and Ukraine have also moved in that direction.... why? you really believe its to help the US to circle Russia?

No they willingly and wantingly joined, Its to shun Putin, his Neo imperialism and the Russian post colonial system. They want no part of it, they want to live under rule of law and be more like other western democracies...... even Lukashenko in belarus, the most Russophile nation in that part of the world, is turning his back on further integration with Putin and is courting the west more......

"Its all just the nasty USA, forcing countries into NATO to encircle poor hard done by Russia, our neighbours are all victims to CIA orchestrated coups"............. The real truth is to painful now isnt it, The Kremlin is to scared of seeing its former subjects flourish as western style democracies in case Russians, joined by language and culture start to see and want the same freedoms. They cant be allowed to succeed as they are a threat to the Kremlin who fear similar uprisings. So its all the nasty west doing this, they all hate us..... the same shit North Korea spouts.

No - the actual reality, is these are countries trying to break free of Russias servitude and demanded Hegemony and control, these are popular uprisings that reject the system, by real people sick of living under totally corrupt pro russian thieves, who pillage their nations, expropriating state assets and many individuals businesses. They want to be free of corruption, they want to be free of the the post Soviet system. They love their language, history and culture, but not their system or leaders.

Russia really is spreading never ending lies, killing civilians, starting proxy wars, murdering Journalists, using WMDs on out streets, stealing sovereign territory, doping all of its athletes, trying to change WW2 history etc etc this is all actually happening for real, it is Russia that is funding many EU opposition parties and meddling in elections, it is they that are trying to divide/conquer and destablise the west whilst blaming instead the west for it, It is not Russophobia to speak the truth about what the Kremlin and Putin does, they are not Russia, they are the corrupt governance of it.

Now you trot on back to RT with the other useful idiots.

 

[Swansman]

So my source is the BAE systems media department?

What nonsense, you poor deluded fool.

You want to stop reading RT and believing the troll factory bollox popping up all over the place, they obviously caught one goon on their hook ready to perpetuate misinformation.

I am astounded that you could spout such utter garbage. I am married to a Ukrainian, where my wife comes from almost 20,000 civilians have been killed by Putins military without insignia, you can hear shelling just 10km from my mother in Laws house. The whole of that part of Ukraine is ethnic Russian, who have all turned their backs on Putin, and we know now literally 10's of real Russians who live in Russia, my wifes best friend, she communicates with multiple times per day every single day is a Russian living in Moscow and trust me they know, as I'm sure do many others who arent in the elder, USSR nostalgia group or deluded idiots like you, that what they hear is a "narrative" and not real.
They are all proud Russians, proud of their heritage of their history who live through a system of total Kremlin state control of all media, but they still know Putin is a both a thief and compulsive liar and can separate the Kremlin from Russia in general, something you obviously cant.

How can you be so out of touch with reality? As to be an apologist for a mass murderer, a non stop compulsive liar who murders any opposing voice, who invades his neighbours, steals territory, shoots down airliners, murders with WMDs on UK streets, sends his long range bombers to buzz our coastline weekly, spreads never ending lies, propaganda and misinformation around the world and yet always denies everything.

You think he's a poor misunderstood man, fighting off the circling NATO? idiot. Thats the siege mentality he wishes to create, its utter garbage.

The baltic countries willingly wanted to join NATO, we know a former Lithuanian who was involved in Politics there and who lives in UK, they were not forced or coaxed by the west..... Georgia and Ukraine have also moved in that direction.... why? to help the US to circle Russia?

Its to shun Putin and his Neo imperialism. They want no part of it, even Lukashenko in belarus, the most Russophile nation in that part of the world, is turning his back on further integration with Putin and is courting the west more......

"Its all just the nasty USA, forcing countries into NATO to encircle poor hard done by Russia, our neighbours are all victims to CIA orchestrated coups............. No these are countries trying to break free of Russians servitude and demanded Hegemony and control, these are popular uprisings that reject the system, by real people sick of living under totally corrupt pro russian thieves, who pillage their nations, expropriating state assets and many individuals businesses. They want to be free of corruption, they want to be free of the the post Soviet system. They love their language, history and culture, but not their system or leaders.

Russia really is spreading never ending lies, killing civilians, starting proxy wars, murdering Journalists, using WMDs on out streets, stealing sovereign territory, doping all of its athletes, trying to change WW2 history etc etc this is all actually happening for real, it is not Russophobia to speak the truth about what the Kremlin and Putin does, they are not Russia, they are the corrupt governance of it.

Now you trot on back to RT with the other useful idiots.

I'm not buying Russian propaganda, the difference is I dont buy Western propaganda either.
As the whole world got black on white during the Watergate scandal, thousands of CIA workers are working on newspapers all over the world to promote American ideas - "this country needs to be bombed, this country needs to be bombed, this country needs to be bombed". Then bombs fall, most applaude it, and a US friendly leader is installed to give away their natural resources. The UK, just like Sweden, are a very close military partner of the US.

To quote my student literature from my time studing Peace and Conflict Research:

"CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition.

First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow."​

The narrative in every country is: "our enemies are spreading propaganda, we are spreading information". The amount of people who buy that propaganda differs, but the concept is the same.

Apologist for a mass murderer? Look at your own ****ing history. Look at the NATO. I dont question that Russia, with or without Putin, cost millions of life - I question the narrative that you and most westeners buy that this is Star Wars with one good, friendly, loving empire and one evil, world-destroying empire. All super powers are super killers.

While I do believe he is misunderstood as he is the target of the Western military–industrial–media complex propaganda in creating hatred and fear for Russia, I dont think he is a "poor man fighting off circling NATO" in the sense you believe. What he do want is a balance of superpowers. He wants to dominate the Eastern world, primarly old Soviet, and he wants a share of Africa, a share of the Middle East, a share of South America. He is fighting for Russias right to be as oppressive and imperialistic as its western counterpart, NATO (or if you so say; the US and its satellite states - meaning us, meaning you).

Yes, if you spread enough propaganda you get people to want stuff. If they were badly treated by their former owners, like the Baltic states, its easier. Force feed them with US culture showing how perfect the Western world is but ignore telling them we dont really give a shit and only see them as a nice location to put a military base or two, and they willingly want it.

Neo-imperialism? Russia could only dream of getting close to our "neo-imperialism"!

The NATO and its member states are spreading never ending lies, killing civilians, starting proxy was, murdering journalists, using WMDs on streets, stealing sovereign territory, perhaps not doping its athletes, trying to change parts of history. Its all happening for real, its not just Russian propaganda to speak the truth about how we are equally ****ing ugly and nasty and murderous though it should be said that its not really us, its our corrupt governance.

 

[beorhthelm]

speaking of the industry-military complex and the various conspiracies that flow from that, i noted something interesting on the WorldOMeter site. under the "government" section it shows global spending, and military is third behind education and.. healthcare. about 3 times as much.

so perhaps this is crisis is setup by the pharma companies to take over the world?

 

[peterward]

I'm not buying Russian propaganda, the difference is I dont buy Western propaganda either.
As the whole world got black on white during the Watergate scandal, thousands of CIA workers are working on newspapers all over the world to promote American ideas - "this country needs to be bombed, this country needs to be bombed, this country needs to be bombed". Then bombs fall, most applaude it, and a US friendly leader is installed to give away their natural resources. The UK, just like Sweden, are a very close military partner of the US.

To quote my student literature from my time studing Peace and Conflict Research:

"CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition.

First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow."​

The narrative in every country is: "our enemies are spreading propaganda, we are spreading information". The amount of people who buy that propaganda differs, but the concept is the same.

Apologist for a mass murderer? Look at your own ****ing history. Look at the NATO. I dont question that Russia, with or without Putin, cost millions of life - I question the narrative that you and most westeners buy that this is Star Wars with one good, friendly, loving empire and one evil, world-destroying empire. All super powers are super killers.

While I do believe he is misunderstood as he is the target of the Western military–industrial–media complex propaganda in creating hatred and fear for Russia, I dont think he is a "poor man fighting off circling NATO" in the sense you believe. What he do want is a balance of superpowers. He wants to dominate the Eastern world, primarly old Soviet, and he wants a share of Africa, a share of the Middle East, a share of South America. He is fighting for Russias right to be as oppressive and imperialistic as its western counterpart, NATO (or if you so say; the US and its satellite states - meaning us, meaning you).

Yes, if you spread enough propaganda you get people to want stuff. If they were badly treated by their former owners, like the Baltic states, its easier. Force feed them with US culture showing how perfect the Western world is but ignore telling them we dont really give a shit and only see them as a nice location to put a military base or two, and they willingly want it.

Neo-imperialism? Russia could only dream of getting close to our "neo-imperialism"!

The NATO and its member states are spreading never ending lies, killing civilians, starting proxy was, murdering journalists, using WMDs on streets, stealing sovereign territory, perhaps not doping its athletes, trying to change parts of history. Its all happening for real, its not just Russian propaganda to speak the truth about how we are equally ****ing ugly and nasty and murderous though it should be said that its not really us, its our corrupt governance.

What guff, youre an apologist plain and simple, you try and use what you perceive as another's malfeasance to dumb down a very real dirty reality.... that is sold as a lie. plain and simple.

I don't compare our imperialism, you do. And im not talking about the 1600's, Or even the second world war, we all know Germany has changed. This is the here and now. I dont think the west doesnt tell lies, but neither do I try and use that fact to buy into a totally false and distorted belief that in some ways justifies Putins lies. Where are we we Using WMD's on the streets of any nation let alobe Russia, can you show any evidence of UK bombers brinkmanship on the 12 mile boundary of Russia, any proof we are meddling in their rigged process? Which Journalist in he UK has been ordered to be assasinated for speaking out against a Leader? any takers?

When in the modern era we live in, has the UK, or the US (whom you wrongly state that we somehow, live in similar hegemony to the post soviet nations under coercive Russian indirect rule) invaded our near neighbours for disagreeing with our chosen path for their sovereignty or for them daring to choose their own future. We just voted to leave the EU, when does the French military invade without insignia, steal Wales, shoot down a BA 747 and kill 20,000 whilst denying it all and spreading misinformation?

Has Boris yet ordered a chemical weapons attack on the streets of Krasnoyarsk against someone he doesnt much like? Poured radioactive nuclear material in Ken Livingstone's tea on the streets of Moscow?

Do we suppress all voices, including yours and subject all to a state controlled narrative, with harsh punishments by a complicit and appointed judiciary with no real rule of law, or one that is easily bypassed by the authorities?

Do we ban people from freely expressing their sexuality or lifestyle? which boils down to freedom to choose and the right to exercise that freedom.

Youre honestly deluded Swansman when it comes to Putin (his Kremlin) and their subjugation of all around them, punishments for non compliance including proxy wars and mass murder of ethnic Russians in the 21st century.

I dont doubt Putin sees himself as a Patriot, trying to restore Russian power. but it is a power that is never by concensus. It is a a controlled, bullying one way power in chains with dire consequnces for freedom of thought or a freedom of choice that may ever reject that hegemony.

I say it again, for whatever NATO has done in Serbia or any other place, in the Baltic nations and now in Ukraine, it IS NOT being led by a US desire to encircle Russia, it is by nations desperate to free themselves from Kremlin coercive control. The uprisings are not anti Russian coups orchestrated by the CIA, they are real people in their millions trying to throw off the post soviet oligarchic, rotten system.

The Kremlin doesnt tell the truth, nor does its radio, its TV, its political leaders, and certainly not its Godfather Putin. Its an orchestrated narrative, that paints the west as anti Russian, to justify its own brutal behaviour. To deny the FACT that many former brother nations full of ethnic Russians reject the Kremlin system (Not Russia). And to to keep the people of Russia in check by trying to raise nationalistic fervour against a false threat.

Its just not real. The real enemy of the Russian people and its neighbours is Putin and the Kremlin. He and this system has driven them into the arms of another, desperate to be rid of this corruption. It steals everything, money, freedom, truth, choice.

You really have no idea what you're comparing. Youre actually more dangerous than the trolls in St Petersburg who at least realise theyre spreading misinformation.

 

[vegster]

Anyone who believes Putin's Russia is a COVID-19 'free' utopia is something to admire, needs to rethink. Journalists murdered and attacked, homosexuals attacked and murdered, ethnic minorities murdered or imprisoned, dissidents murdered by the state or sentenced to long and brutal prison terms on phoney charges.

There was a documentary on the rise of Putin on C4 the other day, it's a three part series and the first one charted his rise to power. Quite eye opening ! I'd recommend it.