[News] Clap for heroes

[BrianWade4]

Nothing here.

My wife’s a key worker (looks after disabled and vulnerable kids) and didn’t even bother with it

 

[PeterOut]

I’m glad someone said it, we are the unhealthiest country in Europe and only getting worse, Im not a political expert but I find the idea that the tories have destroyed the NHS quite bizarre really, according to NHS waiting lists this year is the worst year for waits since 2008, under a labour government. I say this as someone who has voted labour and Tory in my life, I don’t have a bias so I’m genuinely wondering why not voting Tory/voting labour would help the NHS.

Do you really have no idea why waiting lists this year are the longest they have been since 2008?

Really?

No idea why countless planned treatments have had to be postponed?

 

[The Wizard]

Do you really have no idea why waiting lists this year are the longest they have been since 2008?

Really?

No idea why countless planned treatments have had to be postponed?

Did you really not read my post properly? The point was the only year the NHS waiting list has been worse is the year of a pandemic, and the previous worst year was 2008 - under a Labour government.

My post was more a question to those who say not to vote Tory to save the NHS, I don’t plan on voting Tory, to be honest I don’t plan on voting Labour either at this point but I’m trying to understand why Labour would be better for the NHS, as many posters claim.

 

[BadFish]

Did you really not read my post properly? The point was the only year the NHS waiting list has been worse is the year of a pandemic, and the previous worst year was 2008 - under a Labour government.

My post was more a question to those who say not to vote Tory to save the NHS, I don’t plan on voting Tory, to be honest I don’t plan on voting Labour either at this point but I’m trying to understand why Labour would be better for the NHS, as many posters claim.

I didn't realize that labour were trying to privatise many parts of the NHS as the Tories currently appear to be.

I was aware that they underfunded it. This seems to be a bi-partizan method of saving money.

I am not sure that looking at record waiting lists is the best measure of how well supported the NHS is by each government. Surely looking at funding levels would be a better metric?

I found this chart that shows NHS spending as % of GDP.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/chart/nhs-spending-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-1950-2020

Labour from 1997 - 2010
Tories 2010 - Now

From this, it certainly looks like spending increased during the latter part of the labour government and it looks like it is dropping since this Tory government came in.

The Tories seem to be suggesting that the reason for this drop in funding is Brexit. They are also promising a 33 billion pound investment over the next 3 or 4 years.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-priorities/nhs

Labour are saying that they will increase funding by 4.3% a year (not sure what this works out as). They are also promising to reverse the privatisation of the NHS and stop the 'fire sale' of NHS assets and property.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-priorities/nhs



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[surlyseagull]

Why don't we have a clap for the self employed the entreptreprenauers and business leaders who create the money so those in the public sector can have there wages and pensions and moan about how hard done by they are.

If the govt carries on shafting these people there wont be any money to pay for the NHS .

 

[Jahooli]

Yeah first time round my misses (health care professional) just sat on the sofa whilst I hung out the window!

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I do the same if my missus does a rudy-puff

 

[BN41Albion]

I’m glad someone said it, we are the unhealthiest country in Europe and only getting worse, Im not a political expert but I find the idea that the tories have destroyed the NHS quite bizarre really, according to NHS waiting lists this year is the worst year for waits since 2008, under a labour government. I say this as someone who has voted labour and Tory in my life, I don’t have a bias so I’m genuinely wondering why not voting Tory/voting labour would help the NHS.

Not quite. 3rd aren't we? And many countries around the same level just below us. The world's getting much fatter - barely any nation spared. Fast food and modern lifestyle causing so many to not give a shit about or lose hope re their health. Pretty depressing really. In terms of the NHS I really agree that a big part of the problem is people not taking care of their own health.

 

[Bodian]

I’m glad someone said it, we are the unhealthiest country in Europe and only getting worse, Im not a political expert but I find the idea that the tories have destroyed the NHS quite bizarre really, according to NHS waiting lists this year is the worst year for waits since 2008, under a labour government. I say this as someone who has voted labour and Tory in my life, I don’t have a bias so I’m genuinely wondering why not voting Tory/voting labour would help the NHS.

Yes the waiting list was high in 2008, but you should also look at what happened before, and what has happened since.

Before

Since

Quite clear that waiting times went down to 2008 (Labour) - then continued going down for a few more years (Labour), with a steady increase under the Tories since 2010.

 

[AlastairWatts]

I don't agree with this. He ignored scientific advice calling for urgent lockdown and circuit breakers. As a result, more people died of Covid in the UK in the last 24 hours than have died in Australia in the entire pandemic. That's on Johnson any way you spin it.

Practically every 'scientist' leapt into every kind of media with his or her own solutions - wisely the government took the best advice that they could find. from, as I rememmber it, a sort of council of twenty top scientists and doctors. (Think it was called 'Sage'.) It's hard to see what else they could have done, and this kind of approach has been repeated all over the world..

The population of Australia is a fraction of that of the UK. I don't think that there's anything to be gained by making comparisons like that.

 

[Weststander]

I didn't realize that labour were trying to privatise many parts of the NHS as the Tories currently appear to be.

I was aware that they underfunded it. This seems to be a bi-partizan method of saving money.

I am not sure that looking at record waiting lists is the best measure of how well supported the NHS is by each government. Surely looking at funding levels would be a better metric?

I found this chart that shows NHS spending as % of GDP.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/chart/nhs-spending-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-1950-2020

Labour from 1997 - 2010
Tories 2010 - Now

From this, it certainly looks like spending increased during the latter part of the labour government and it looks like it is dropping since this Tory government came in.

The Tories seem to be suggesting that the reason for this drop in funding is Brexit. They are also promising a 33 billion pound investment over the next 3 or 4 years.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-priorities/nhs

Labour are saying that they will increase funding by 4.3% a year (not sure what this works out as). They are also promising to reverse the privatisation of the NHS and stop the 'fire sale' of NHS assets and property.

https://www.conservatives.com/our-priorities/nhs

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Bunging in emotive “drop” and “dropping” gives a deliberately false impression.

In Brown’s last year £126b was spent, in 2020/21 it will be £161b excluding CV19 costs. In a period of very low general inflation.



As new hospitals such as the £440m Royal Sussex are built and the cost of drugs rise exponentially. All governments have increased NHS spending in real terms by eye watering numbers. Healthcare is expensive, it’s getting more expensive and we have ageing population.

If we make this party political, Brown and Blair signed up to onerous PFI contracts where £55b of infrastructure will cost our nation £300b. The P stands for that evil word Private.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

 

[clapham_gull]

If we make this party political, Brown and Blair signed up to onerous PFI contracts where £55b of infrastructure will cost our nation £300b. The P stands for that evil word Private.

All parties **** up and it usually leads them out of power. I find interestingly historically that because Labour made one humungous mother of **** ups with the Iraq war, their other humdingers are easily forgotten. One is the one you quote and the other being the London Underground PPP. Such a complex web of financial incompetence no one can actually work out how many billions were flushed down the toilet.

The utter weirdness of it all is that is something you would expect (ideologically) a Conservative Party to do.

 

[Weststander]

All parties **** up and it usually leads them out of power. I find interestingly historically that because Labour made one humungous mother of **** ups with the Iraq war, their other humdingers are easily forgotten. One is the one you quote and the other being the London Underground PPP. Such a complex web of financial incompetence no one can actually work out how many billions were flushed down the toilet.

The utter weirdness of it all is that is something you would expect (ideologically) a Conservative Party to do.

Thank you for your posts recently on various threads eg Trump, very balanced.

I’m not a Tory devotee, I voted for a Labour MP in 1997 (no regrets as Midge Ure would say) and for Lucas since. But I challenge selective propaganda whether it be from the left or Farage/IDS fanboys.

The one remaining argument I’ve heard is that “at least we got the new schools and hospitals”. But in a low finance cost era, ultimately costing 6x their inherent value. A huge gaff, but UK leaders and ex-leaders, whether they be blue, orange or red, never admit such things.

 

[BadFish]

Bunging in emotive “drop” and “dropping” gives a deliberately false impression.

In Brown’s last year £126b was spent, in 2020/21 it will be £161b excluding CV19 costs. In a period of very low general inflation.

View attachment 132282

As new hospitals such as the £440m Royal Sussex are built and the cost of drugs rise exponentially. All governments have increased NHS spending in real terms by eye watering numbers. Healthcare is expensive, it’s getting more expensive and we have ageing population.

If we make this party political, Brown and Blair signed up to onerous PFI contracts where £55b of infrastructure will cost our nation £300b. The P stands for that evil word Private.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

There are many variables involved in this. The point I was making was that there are better metrics to use than waiting lists to argue this point. I would suggest that it would take a huge investigation of a huge range of data sets to come up with a credible conclusion to this argument (something that is way beyond my capabilities). This is why I didn't offer a conclusion to my post.

FWIW, I used the words 'dropping' and 'drop' because they were the words that came to mind to describe the figures 'going down', ('decreasing', 'dropping', 'falling' 'not having the attention it deserves' - choose your own). Any emotiveness was entirely accidental (not taking into account unconscious bias which may have been in force (oo that's a bit emotive too) - which may have been evident.

 

[The Clamp]

Practically every 'scientist' leapt into every kind of media with his or her own solutions - wisely the government took the best advice that they could find. from, as I rememmber it, a sort of council of twenty top scientists and doctors. (Think it was called 'Sage'.) It's hard to see what else they could have done, and this kind of approach has been repeated all over the world..

The population of Australia is a fraction of that of the UK. I don't think that there's anything to be gained by making comparisons like that.

As I have said, many times, forget about population and land mass etc. The foul ups made by Johnson and his cronies are nothing to do with those factors. I’ve listed them earlier. Do have a look or continue to believe that Johnson has done al he can with our best interests at heart. If it makes you feel better. I’ll stick with reality.