[Albion] Brighton fan convicted + banned after Euro 2021 Racism tweet

[WATFORD zero]

Doesn’t just depend on the offence, it also depends on behavioural change, education, making amends etc etc….similar as how prison works with parole. Indefinite is a good start though - maybe he can go and take some positive actions and then put a case together for his re-admittance….

If the club leave it down to the offender to do this, it would seem eminently sensible.

er ..... Barber in

 

[dazzer6666]

A quick Google search suggests he has played football to a county league standard. Wonder how long that will continue.

Wonder what some of his team-mates think…….

 

[Eeyore]

I’ve not seen the tweet, but let’s assume it was really pretty bad (I guess it was to result in a reasonably hefty fine). How long do you think his ban should be, assuming no repeat?

Maybe that is why the ban is indefinite and not lifetime. Possibly it's down to the offender to instigate and prove to the club that they have changed ?

It's an interesting and valid point.

On another forum I frequent, and nothing to do with football, one chap came out and posted that he used to be racist but had gone through reform with the help of his daughter and the BBC shot a brief interview with him about it, which is here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-58330286

As regards the length of the ban, I wouldn't try to be the judge of that.

As regards attitudes, I have never hidden the truth that I had pretty racist and prejudicial views injected into me when I was younger. Often when I mention it other folk quietly nod as if to say they were the same.

The reason why I, and millions of others, never suffered for it was because there was little scrutiny and we weren't the exception. I suspect there a few NScers who, if they look far back across their own lives, can claim to have been the same as they are now. This is because we were products of our age. I was surrounded by an adult world in 70s that infected me with different standards.

But I look at myself now and I see a different man. Not just different, polar opposite, but still far from perfect. Yet I still try first to look inward before judging others. This is not to say we shouldn't be active in addressing the issues. We must. Condemnation is all around, folk know it's wrong. Back then there was no such yardstick.

When I see cases like this I always feel sad that it happens, and even sad for the person who was responsible, just hoping they get a chance to make good.

You don't change society to change people, you change people to change society. And that includes offering a path back to the things they have forgone by their actions and recognising that all of us are flawed in some way. And once we recognise that we have an honest starting point. Moral absolutism is hypocrisy at its best, and we English do hypocrisy well. I should know, I'm English, and I've always been a hypocrite.

 

[Swansman]

I wonder how they will be able to judge if his ban should be rescinded? I mean is there some sort of "are you still a C***?" exam he could take in a few years time to be able to tell if he has become an acceptable member of society?

If such a thing exists surely it should be rolled out across the nation so we could easily identify the rest and deal with them accordingly?

I mean lets say hecompletely turns around and changes his ways and becomes someone really fighting for racial justice and against racism... then there should be some way for him to get back in. Indefinite is good.

 

[Springal]

'Former' Kitchen Fitter is also certainly telling of some of the impact it has had on his life as well I imagine

 

[Baker lite]

The irony of course is no doubt he cheers on Lamptey, Bissouma etc when he was attending games !

This, I remember at Lofus Road, probably 2000/2001 season, some knuckle dragger was racially abusing a Rangers player, then Bobby Zamora got the ball and he started cheering for Bobby…
My compadre and Myself called him out on this and he shut his pie hole. A thoroughly nasty piece of filth he was. Unfortunately I still him see at the Amex now and again, He has kids now, hopefully they don’t grow up like their father.

 

[Brian Fantana]

This, I remember at Lofus Road, probably 2000/2001 season, some knuckle dragger was racially abusing a Rangers player, then Bobby Zamora got the ball and he started cheering for Bobby…
My compadre and Myself called him out on this and he shut his pie hole. A thoroughly nasty piece of filth he was. Unfortunately I still him see at the Amex now and again, He has kids now, hopefully they don’t grow up like their father.

I wonder if it is the same person my mates and I encountered at a Palace away game - exactly the same description of his antics, and we also still see him at The Amex.

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

I mean lets say hecompletely turns around and changes his ways and becomes someone really fighting for racial justice and against racism... then there should be some way for him to get back in. Indefinite is good.

I'm not arguing against indefinite - I think it then allows the club to apply common sense should he become a better person. What I am merely pondering is how, in these days of binary, good or bad, cancel culture fuelled judgements can we as a species allow people to show they are changed. I don't mean situations like Badcock at Raith Rovers so much as gobshite idiots who tweet something appalling, some will grow to become better people whilst will not - how can we tell these two types apart? Time served doesn't solve it at all.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

As regards the length of the ban, I wouldn't try to be the judge of that.

As regards attitudes, I have never hidden the truth that I had pretty racist and prejudicial views when I was younger. Often when I mention it other folk quietly nod as if to say they were the same.

The reason why I, and millions of others, never suffered for it was because there was little scrutiny and we weren't the exception. I suspect there a few NScers who, if they look back across their own lives, can claim to have been the same as they are now. This is because we were products of our age. I was surrounded by an adult world in 70s that infected me with different standards.

But I look at myself now and I see a different man. Not just different, but polar opposite, but still far from perfect. Yet I still try first to look inward before judging others. This is not to say we shouldn't be active in addressing the issues. We must. Condemnation is all around, folk know it's wrong. Back then there was no such yardstick.

But this is not to excuse. I wish I had always been the person I try to be now. And when I see cases like this I always feel sad that it happens, and even sad for the person who was responsible, just hoping they get a chance to make good.

You don't change society to change people, you change people to change society. And that includes offering a path back to the things they have forgone by their actions and recognising that all of us are flawed in some way. And once we recognise that we have an honest starting point. Moral absolutism is hypocrisy at its best, and we English do hypocrisy well. I should know, I'm English, and I've always been a hypocrite.

We sound as though we are both willing to admit the error of our uneducated youthful way, nothing to be proud of, but proof people can change, and can speak from experience, rather than an ivory tower, with no real appreciation of why and how to tackle racism.
I was similar to you, probably worse, indoctrinated by surroundings, unscrupulous right wing characters that preyed on the lost, lonely and uneducated, in my case at gigs.
By a certain prominent at the time C18 figure would come to gigs and at first, chat the shit, then gradually drop in comments, and statements, come along to a meeting/gig.
I went to racist gig/meeting, I am not afraid to admit it, I was 16 and doubts set in before we left, the fella in question who eked his way into our group by dating a school friend, said he would ask his neighbour to look after his dog while we were at the gig, his neighbour was black, I asked him, why was he letting him look after his dog if hates black people, he said his neighbour was alright and that he understood the struggles of the white man....
Big red flag... It is all bullshit, I spent most the gig in the car park, you might say why did you still go, but this guy was very frightening and used to be part of the security for screwdriver, and later claimed to have formed the white wolves.

Many will read that, and probably make their own opinions of what I did or am, I am ashamed of my stupidity back then, however I am as far from that as can possibly be now, I do not have a racist bone in my body now, I deplore all forms of racism, sexism, I hate politics, and treat everyone as I wish to be treated, fairly, and with kindness.

There is a way back, and that path, should never be blocked.


May I add that because this fella came along to a psychobilly gig and we met him through that. In no way is Psychobilly racist music...
It was a means to an end for them, they saw us in bleached jeans and shaved sides, with a quiff as like them, we are nothing like them.
The meteors back in 81 were an a political band, and famously used the slogan on their flyers, "feck politics, feck religion" and their followers the wreckin crew also took on a large group of nazis after a gig at Balham hall in Southall and whopped their arses.

Psychobilly, is a mixture of rockabilly, surf, punk, ska and whatever else you want to throw in.
It's not sophisticated, just harmless fun...

I just wanted to clear that up, for the uneducated.

 

[Badger Boy]

This, I remember at Lofus Road, probably 2000/2001 season, some knuckle dragger was racially abusing a Rangers player, then Bobby Zamora got the ball and he started cheering for Bobby…
My compadre and Myself called him out on this and he shut his pie hole. A thoroughly nasty piece of filth he was. Unfortunately I still him see at the Amex now and again, He has kids now, hopefully they don’t grow up like their father.

Incredible memory for faces.

Personally, I don't think a lifetime is required if the guy grows up and learns from the experience. If they're prepared to go through appropriate education and speak with victims of racist abuse, maybe they'll turn themselves around. Society can't just write people off after one transgression because that's going to lead to a huge number of disenfranchised people with chips on their shoulders. If this person wants to get back into football supporting, they're going to need to change their behaviour and I would prefer they have that chance rather than writing them off forever.

 

[Stat Brother]

The irony of course is no doubt he cheers on Lamptey, Bissouma etc when he was attending games !

Although I bet he hated Bong with the fury of a thousand suns.

 

[Baker lite]

Incredible memory for faces.

Personally, I don't think a lifetime is required if the guy grows up and learns from the experience. If they're prepared to go through appropriate education and speak with victims of racist abuse, maybe they'll turn themselves around. Society can't just write people off after one transgression because that's going to lead to a huge number of disenfranchised people with chips on their shoulders. If this person wants to get back into football supporting, they're going to need to change their behaviour and I would prefer they have that chance rather than writing them off forever.

Perhaps, could be a good initiative from the club to perhaps look into this sort of thing, as you said, if there is no way back from this sort of thing, then why would the offender have any interest in changing their attitudes?
I never forget a face.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The irony of course is no doubt he cheers on Lamptey, Bissouma etc when he was attending games !

Possible but unlikely. You get "fans" who never ever have anything positive to say about ANY players. Supporting is a sign if weakness. If they were picking the team and every player did exactly what they were told to, the team would never lose, or indeed even make a mistake, let alone let the opposition score.

 

[Wardy's twin]

What’s the difference between indefinite and lifetime?

ban carries on into the spirit world....

 

[lawros left foot]

If he’d have tweeted the same shit about Romanys, he’d have got a 250 gig National comedy tour.

 

[Acker79]

Odd timing - just after the Club's tweet, there was one from SSN about a fan being convicted with racist abuse of Rio Ferdinand on twitter following the euro's final. I thought they were linked because the club statement didn't name the fan, but seeing the name in the mirror article it looks like it was two different cases.

[tweet]1489590620717043712[/tweet]

 

[Eeyore]

We sound as though we are both willing to admit the error of our uneducated youthful way, nothing to be proud of, but proof people can change, and can speak from experience, rather than an ivory tower, with no real appreciation of why and how to tackle racism.
I was similar to you, probably worse, indoctrinated by surroundings, unscrupulous right wing characters that preyed on the lost, lonely and uneducated, in my case at gigs.
By a certain prominent at the time C18 figure would come to gigs and at first, chat the shit, then gradually drop in comments, and statements, come along to a meeting/gig.
I went to racist gig/meeting, I am not afraid to admit it, I was 16 and doubts set in before we left, the fella in question who eked his way into our group by dating a school friend, said he would ask his neighbour to look after his dog while we were at the gig, his neighbour was black, I asked him, why was he letting him look after his dog if hates black people, he said his neighbour was alright and that he understood the struggles of the white man....
Big red flag... It is all bullshit, I spent most the gig in the car park, you might say why did you still go, but this guy was very frightening and used to be part of the security for screwdriver, and later claimed to have formed the white wolves.

Many will read that, and probably make their own opinions of what I did or am, I am ashamed of my stupidity back then, however I am as far from that as can possibly be now, I do not have a racist bone in my body now, I deplore all forms of racism, sexism, I hate politics, and treat everyone as I wish to be treated, fairly, and with kindness.

There is a way back, and that path, should never be blocked.

You went because you were 16 and impressionable.

I remember an away match at Wimbledon in 1986 when a bloke in the away end was loudly making racist jokes about the Wimbledon players. We were kids, we laughed. None of the adults had a word. It was just accepted. So in that environment what is expected of a youngster if their seniors turn a blind eye ?

I always apply my 'black man in a BMW' test. I put it to a friend who is vocal against prejudice and with good heart one day. I asked them if they had ever seen a black man in an expensive car and wondered where he got his money from. A thoughtful 'yes' came the response.

So let no-one condemn you for what was part of you then. In fact, it is those who condemn who often have most to answer for. Those who acknowledge their own failings have at least reached the starting line to a better way. Those who just condemn need to take a look at their own hearts first.

As John Barnes once said 'we are all sub-conscious racists' when he called out the hypocrisy of the response to the Liam Nielson business.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I thought de rigeur these days was an apology for clemency.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I agree with the ban, and I'm really happy that racism is being called out. It's nice to see toxicity being removed. It's a reflection of values.

I don't agree with a lifetime ban, because that is to give no pathway and reward for change. That's a society of absolutes and moral perching. You change people to change society, and that should be reflected by re-integration. People do bad stuff, but people change too. All have sinned.

Happy to celebrate warm and reflective values and standards, not happy to be swept up in self righteous moral crusades, as is often the outcome of these happenings.

He did something dumb that he probably regrets. He paid a heavy price. Now it's time to try and make it good.

Interesting to see a reflective view

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

'Former' Kitchen Fitter is also certainly telling of some of the impact it has had on his life as well I imagine

Gonna be a long time before he sees a draw again