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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,073


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,347
Gods country fortnightly
£140M already given to Rwanda, millions spent on legal fees, and now further bribes to Rwanda using tax payers money.

That wasn’t on the side of a bus.
Even if they send a few hundred to Rwanda it is in no way a deterrent, it will fail.

A returns agreement with the French may be more effective but Lord Rothermere wouldn't approve
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Even if they send a few hundred to Rwanda it is in no way a deterrent, it will fail.

A returns agreement with the French may be more effective but Lord Rothermere wouldn't approve
We had that before Brexit. Oh, the irony.
 

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Aug 24, 2020
4,999
Even if they send a few hundred to Rwanda it is in no way a deterrent, it will fail.
This is one of the things I really don't understand about the whole idea. What evidence is it based on? Being a brand new scheme, it is without precedent, so is obviously untried and untested. How does the government know (and I mean know) that it will work as a deterrent? The obvious answer is that they don't know, and that it is baseless hope behind the drive to plough on with it, even despite the small matter of the Supreme Court, the highest court in the country, ruling it illegal anyway.
 

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,350
I am STILL waiting for the Brexiters on here to either make out a case for their continuing support of this self inflicted wound or simply acknowledge that they have made a mistake. If any of them had the courage to do either I for one would appreciate the move; any takers out there?


Thanks in anticipation of the thumbs up Is it PotG?

Now can you meet the challenge set out above? No?

Disappointing but predictable.....
 
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nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,347
Gods country fortnightly


Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,350
Go go global Britain indeed, ratifying that deal is most welcome and must come as a welcome surprise to all those who said it would take several years to replace the EU deals with third countries. Phase two, starting and improving on the deal beginning this year too ... [emoji636]
This didn't age too well, did it?
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Aug 25, 2011
62,538
Withdean area
Posting here as it's connected, rather than Rwanda type threads.

The government's new immigration criteria will crush the hospitality sector. From an expert in the sector, from 9:10.

I hope hotels etc are able to survive up to the next GE and that Labour promises to immediately assist the sector.
 

chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 12, 2022
1,668
mmm, interesting article in The Guardian


Larry Elliott has not been paying attention if he feels that nasty nationalism hasn’t become endemic in our political rhetoric.

Additionally, our standard of living has dropped significantly in the past few years. I have gone from a situation where I could go to a restaurant and/or enjoy a bottle of decent European wine to a place where I have had to think twice before putting the heating on. I’m not a trained sociologist, but this is not what success looks like to me.

My wages have stagnated with any increases being below inflation while prices have risen, an effective death by a thousand cuts.

Where I agree with him is that the rot set in post 2008, but to claim that the decline hasn’t accelerated post-Brexit and that everything’s fine is a peculiar form of blindness. Economists often have odd, inhuman notions of success and failure however. Their overall reasoning often seems to be “GDP number go up = success” - a spectacularly poor measure of how a country is treating its people.
 


chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 12, 2022
1,668
As further evidence of the stupidity of our current political leaders:

Robert Jenrick insists UK workers will fill labour gaps after migration crackdown https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67622998

The jobs that we’re reducing migration for are hard physical jobs (care, hotel work, fruit-picking)

The only unemployed cohort we have are those with health issues (the long-term sick) who this government believe can/will be able to work from home.

Now, tell me how you perform care work, pick fruit, or clean hotel rooms from home? Absolute hubris and idiocy, these fools have no clue.
 

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,347
Gods country fortnightly

You start watching and for the first minute you think its a piss take, sadly its not.

Yet most of our media are complicit and carry on as it if they did nothing wrong.
 
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Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,439
mmm, interesting article in The Guardian

That's an interesting take, and not your bog standard, left of centre Guardian fare.

I think it shows how damaging the claims of George Osborn were about how quickly the economy would implode following Brexit. He didn't need to sensationalise the impact of Brexit, and the fact the economy didn't perform as badly as he'd predicted enabled Brexiteers to discredit 'Project Fear' and bought them time.

I also think that the European economy is sluggish - along with ours - because we are all still adjusting following Covid. Many people have Long Covid and other illnesses that have been aggravated by Covid, or are in the backlog still awaiting treatment following Covid. A lot of other people simply went home to their place of origin. That affects the labour market, production and efficiency.

I also think that many have realised that there is more to life than work and are not working as hard as they did pre-Covid. For many, Friday is the start of the weekend.

However, if Labour is to turn the situation around they don't have many levers they can pull, but one of them is to boost manufacturing by entering a Customs Union or rejoining the Single Market. That's not the same thing as rejoining the EU, and you would hope Starmer has the statesmanship to communicate and sell that to the electorate.

As we hear more of Labour in the build-up to the next GE I feel as though what changes they have planned will barely touch the sides of our problems. This is a 15-year lull that requires a Grand Plan. I don't see any evidence of a Grand Plan, just tinkering. The main thing Labour have going for them is they seem a more honest, likeable bunch.
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 10, 2003
25,424
That's an interesting take, and not your bog standard, left of centre Guardian fare.

I think it shows how damaging the claims of George Osborn were about how quickly the economy would implode following Brexit. He didn't need to sensationalise the impact of Brexit, and the fact the economy didn't perform as badly as he'd predicted enabled Brexiteers to discredit 'Project Fear' and bought them time.

I also think that the European economy is sluggish - along with ours - because we are all still adjusting following Covid. Many people have Long Covid and other illnesses that have been aggravated by Covid, or are in the backlog still awaiting treatment following Covid. A lot of other people simply went home to their place of origin. That affects the labour market, production and efficiency.

I also think that many have realised that there is more to life than work and are not working as hard as they did pre-Covid. For many, Friday is the start of the weekend.

However, if Labour is to turn the situation around they don't have many levers they can pull, but one of them is to boost manufacturing by entering a Customs Union or rejoining the Single Market. That's not the same thing as rejoining the EU, and you would hope Starmer has the statesmanship to communicate and sell that to the electorate.

As we hear more of Labour in the build-up to the next GE I feel as though what changes they have planned will barely touch the sides of our problems. This is a 15-year lull that requires a Grand Plan. I don't see any evidence of a Grand Plan, just tinkering. The main thing Labour have going for them is they seem a more honest, likeable bunch.

From the COVID inquiry, it has now become blatantly obvious as to the state of this current cabal's ability to find it's arse from it's elbow during the Brexit negotiations and it's consequential 'Brilliant Brexit Deal' :facepalm:

Luckily, under the terms of this 'Brilliant Brexit Deal', The Trade and Cooperation Agreement is due for it's first review and renegotiation by the UK and EU in 2026 with no set terms of reference.

This will allow a large number of the current issues to be addressed by both sides in order to get back to a sensible trading base, Starmer to sell it as 'improving' the Brexit deal and allow all of those who voted for Brexit to claim that this was the Brexit they wanted all along whilst still not understanding any aspect of it. (Even if it has a whole lot in common with a Customs Union or Single Market :wink:)

And everyone's a winner.

OK everyone's slightly less of a loser if you want to be pedantic :thumbsup:
 
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Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Feb 23, 2012
21,284
Brighton
Taking Back Control

Net migration into UK in 2022 revised up to record-breaking figure of 745,000​

Net migration hit a record-breaking 745,000 in 2022, according to revised figures from the Office for National Statistics, as its latest numbers showed 672,000 people came to the UK in the 12 months to June 2023.

https://news.sky.com/story/net-migration-rose-to-672-000-in-year-to-june-up-from-607-000-in-the-previous-year-latest-ons-figures-show-13013846#:~:text=Net migration hit a record,12 months to June 2023.


Those benefits are absolutely flooding in now :shootself
Has there ever been a point in history where so many ( Brexit voters) voted for an outcome (lower net migration) but got the absolute opposite?

IMG_3874.jpeg


Of course, most of those Europeans coming to work in our Country pre-2018 went back home. Very few settled permanently. It’s a very different case with the vast majority of migrants now. They stay. For generations.
 

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,350
I read a comment in response to the Johnson Covid Inquiry questioning that I would struggle to criticise: in summary it says 'All those who voted Johnson into Office should be ashamed of themselves for the rest of their lives'. It was obviously an emotional outburst from a covid victim's relative but I would simply amend it by adding 'unless they recognise it as an error, regret it and resolve NEVER to act so foolishly again.....
 

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,458
Fiveways
That's an interesting take, and not your bog standard, left of centre Guardian fare.

I think it shows how damaging the claims of George Osborn were about how quickly the economy would implode following Brexit. He didn't need to sensationalise the impact of Brexit, and the fact the economy didn't perform as badly as he'd predicted enabled Brexiteers to discredit 'Project Fear' and bought them time.

I also think that the European economy is sluggish - along with ours - because we are all still adjusting following Covid. Many people have Long Covid and other illnesses that have been aggravated by Covid, or are in the backlog still awaiting treatment following Covid. A lot of other people simply went home to their place of origin. That affects the labour market, production and efficiency.

I also think that many have realised that there is more to life than work and are not working as hard as they did pre-Covid. For many, Friday is the start of the weekend.

However, if Labour is to turn the situation around they don't have many levers they can pull, but one of them is to boost manufacturing by entering a Customs Union or rejoining the Single Market. That's not the same thing as rejoining the EU, and you would hope Starmer has the statesmanship to communicate and sell that to the electorate.

As we hear more of Labour in the build-up to the next GE I feel as though what changes they have planned will barely touch the sides of our problems. This is a 15-year lull that requires a Grand Plan. I don't see any evidence of a Grand Plan, just tinkering. The main thing Labour have going for them is they seem a more honest, likeable bunch.
Larry Elliott has been pro-Brexit since before the referendum, and is worth reading as it's important to assess the arguments of those you disagree with on an issue. He's an interesting commentator and was involved in the original Green New Deal group which was formed in 2007.
 


BrightonCottager

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2013
2,045
Brighton
Has there ever been a point in history where so many ( Brexit voters) voted for an outcome (lower net migration) but got the absolute opposite?

View attachment 171020

Of course, most of those Europeans coming to work in our Country pre-2018 went back home. Very few settled permanently. It’s a very different case with the vast majority of migrants now. They stay. For generations.
Interesting graph, although I don't know why the numbers stay the same in future given the government are trying to reduce immigration by raising the minimum income. Also, when Radio 4's 'More or less' covered this, they said most students leave after they finish so the numbers go up and down.
 

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