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[Politics] Brexit

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If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    990

Blues Guitarist

Members
Oct 19, 2020
96
Benefits of Brexit?

I've said it on here, numerous times, that I'd rather be in the EU than out - but, as the owner of a Company that sells 100% overseas, the collapse of the £ against the USD and € post June 2016 saw our sales significantly increase - in effect our prices to our Customers fell.

More paperwork and hassle selling to the EU - absolutely (especially in the last year) but sales still strong with the € at approx. 1.2.
So the benefit of Brexit is the collapse of the £. 😂
 


dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,782
And how tolerant are you of the opinion that Burnley is absolutely stuffed full of the sort of Sun reading thickwits who still point at any aeroplane that isn't dragging a "White Lives Matter" banner???
It's your board, and yes, I agree it has its share of "I'm glad I'm not prejudiced like Northerners are" people. But not a majority.
 

Wardy's twin

Members
Oct 21, 2014
7,314
I think you've pretty much summed up the reason certain politicians are so unpopular, especially round here. Whether you are tongue in cheek or not, there is a type of person who believes that they genuinely have a more valuable opinion than the lower orders because they went to the right university, they hold the right opinions, they think they are better people.

There are a lot of them on this board. If you ever thought this place was liberal, then unthink it. It's supremely intolerant of contrary opinions.
Ok let's open up a legitimate debate and let people air their views. So enlighten me what were the tangible benefits of Bexit.
 

Wokeworrier

Members
Aug 7, 2021
129
West sussex/travelling
Anyone with half a brain.

Anyone with half a brain would look at the main reasons why immigration has increased over the past year ...

Madeleine Sumption, director of Oxford University's politically independent Migration Observatory research unit, said: "All the forecasts suggested that migration would fall as a result of the post-Brexit immigration scheme, which greatly restricted the options for EU citizens to move to the UK - and indeed, EU net migration remains negative.
"But non-EU migration has risen, primarily not because of the policies designed to replace EU free movement.
"The humanitarian routes for Ukraine and Hong Kong and a rebound in international students have played the largest role in boosting immigration levels.
"These unusually high levels of net migration result from a unique set of circumstances following the war in Ukraine and the recovery from the Covid-19 crisis.
"We cannot assume they represent a 'new normal', and it would be rash to take major policy decisions based only on these numbers."

.... if anything this is a positive news story as it shows we have been welcoming large numbers of people fleeing war zones and the Uk remains a very attractive destination for international students.

 

Eric the meek

Bigga balls
Aug 24, 2020
2,811
Anyone with half a brain would look at the main reasons why immigration has increased over the past year ...

Madeleine Sumption, director of Oxford University's politically independent Migration Observatory research unit, said: "All the forecasts suggested that migration would fall as a result of the post-Brexit immigration scheme, which greatly restricted the options for EU citizens to move to the UK - and indeed, EU net migration remains negative.
"But non-EU migration has risen, primarily not because of the policies designed to replace EU free movement.
"The humanitarian routes for Ukraine and Hong Kong and a rebound in international students have played the largest role in boosting immigration levels.
"These unusually high levels of net migration result from a unique set of circumstances following the war in Ukraine and the recovery from the Covid-19 crisis.
"We cannot assume they represent a 'new normal', and it would be rash to take major policy decisions based only on these numbers."

.... if anything this is a positive news story as it shows we have been welcoming large numbers of people fleeing war zones and the Uk remains a very attractive destination for international students.

That reads like 'we would have been correct, had we not encountered several unforeseen circumstances, none of which we have coped with'.

'Home Secretary Suella Braverman said she wanted to resurrect a repeatedly missed government target to reduce net migration to below 100,000'.

So the actual net migration figure of 504,000 is five times the stated aim of under 100,000 originally set by David Cameron, five Prime Ministers ago.

So is this a) a Brexit success (we've taken back control) or b) a Brexit failure (we haven't taken back control at all), or c) neither a) nor b). Move the goalposts instead and re-package it as a positive news story?
 

Hugo Rune

Members
Feb 23, 2012
18,165
Brighton
Talking of future wealth, how's the Brexit dividend and levelling up going in your home town? I imagine Burnley is currently halfway to looking like Sydney's CBD and the educated liberal elite are flocking there in thousands. Probably not too many bargains left when it comes to brick terraces?
Ah. The levelling up fund I hear you say? My guess is that instead of being spent in places like Burnley, it is being used to repair the profound damage a certain Jeremy Corbyn did to the county with his antisemitism. He brought the Country to its knees with his, erm, (what did he do again exactly) but …..antisemitism.

D9C315F1-7FD5-4C19-A972-E0574EDF6810.jpeg

So it’s unsurprising that rather than channeling the funding to deprived northern constituencies, the money is being spent on re-educating students about antisemitism. After all, if students supported Corbyn at the last election by a huge majority, it’s probably because they are antisemitic? Right?
 

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
28,404
Hove
Anyone with half a brain would look at the main reasons why immigration has increased over the past year ...

Madeleine Sumption, director of Oxford University's politically independent Migration Observatory research unit, said: "All the forecasts suggested that migration would fall as a result of the post-Brexit immigration scheme, which greatly restricted the options for EU citizens to move to the UK - and indeed, EU net migration remains negative.
"But non-EU migration has risen, primarily not because of the policies designed to replace EU free movement.
"The humanitarian routes for Ukraine and Hong Kong and a rebound in international students have played the largest role in boosting immigration levels.
"These unusually high levels of net migration result from a unique set of circumstances following the war in Ukraine and the recovery from the Covid-19 crisis.
"We cannot assume they represent a 'new normal', and it would be rash to take major policy decisions based only on these numbers."

.... if anything this is a positive news story as it shows we have been welcoming large numbers of people fleeing war zones and the Uk remains a very attractive destination for international students.

The half a brain part being if you voted Brexit thinking this would transform control of our borders. We already had control. The fact is we need immigration. Take the humanitarian routes out of it, and all that has happened is we've opened up to more non-EU migration to replace what we've lost in those from the EU. This was always going to happen. In or out of the EU immigration hasn't been something we have failed to control, it is something our economy has needed. Elephant in the room. Always was. Tories can talk about 100k targets - but that is utter bullshit, and they have no intention of meeting those targets, it is just cake for their voters and Daily Mail readers.
 

nicko31

Members
Jan 7, 2010
15,371
Gods country fortnightly
Benefits of Brexit?

I've said it on here, numerous times, that I'd rather be in the EU than out - but, as the owner of a Company that sells 100% overseas, the collapse of the £ against the USD and € post June 2016 saw our sales significantly increase - in effect our prices to our Customers fell.

More paperwork and hassle selling to the EU - absolutely (especially in the last year) but sales still strong with the € at approx. 1.2.
I glad we have a positive "in spite of story"

The reality overall is we're are less trade intensive country now, exports with our biggest trading partner are down 15%. Johnson's TCA was shite, we're all now paying the price. It needs a lot of work....
 


rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
The problem is, of course, that there is more than one way to count inflation. This calculation, as you can see on pages 32-34 of the report, is based on assumptions and logarithms and other complexities, and concludes that prices in September 2021 are 6% higher, relative to previous years' food inflation rates, because of Brexit.

But when you look at actual food inflation, the official food CPI produced by simply looking at how much food costs compared with the previous year, you find that food inflation pre-Brexit was 2.5% in 2017, 2.2% in 2018, and 2.0% in 2019. Then it was 1% in 2020 and 1.3% in 2021, so it's awfully hard to see how 6% of that 2.3% rise was caused by Brexit.

I'm sure it's a clever report, but it's too clever by half. You don't need logarithms to measure how much money you're spending!

could you just whizz through all of the brexit benefits again, please, ta

probably a bit quicker!
 

rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
Why do Brexit arguments always come down to "I am clever and you are stupid so I will call you rude names"?

I can't produce evidence of the quality that Watfordzero produced in his initial 6 links (I haven't read the extra ones added later), but those six mostly consisted a one man;s prediction that GDP in 2030 would be 2% less than it would have been without Brexit, and that inflation in 2022 might reach 4.4%. I can't prove him wrong about the former.

Tangible benefits of leaving the EU? We aren't in the EU. If we hadn't had three PMs to run the process who were incompetent or dishonest or both to a great degree, we might see tangible benefits as well as intangible. But incompetent politicians aren't purely the result of Brexit.
you're gonna need a bigger shovel!

the last sentence is utter class!
 

rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
I think you've pretty much summed up the reason certain politicians are so unpopular, especially round here. Whether you are tongue in cheek or not, there is a type of person who believes that they genuinely have a more valuable opinion than the lower orders because they went to the right university, they hold the right opinions, they think they are better people.

There are a lot of them on this board. If you ever thought this place was liberal, then unthink it. It's supremely intolerant of contrary opinions.
it's because it's so obvious that so many people are in agreement
 

rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
Anyone with half a brain would look at the main reasons why immigration has increased over the past year ...

Madeleine Sumption, director of Oxford University's politically independent Migration Observatory research unit, said: "All the forecasts suggested that migration would fall as a result of the post-Brexit immigration scheme, which greatly restricted the options for EU citizens to move to the UK - and indeed, EU net migration remains negative.
"But non-EU migration has risen, primarily not because of the policies designed to replace EU free movement.
"The humanitarian routes for Ukraine and Hong Kong and a rebound in international students have played the largest role in boosting immigration levels.
"These unusually high levels of net migration result from a unique set of circumstances following the war in Ukraine and the recovery from the Covid-19 crisis.
"We cannot assume they represent a 'new normal', and it would be rash to take major policy decisions based only on these numbers."

.... if anything this is a positive news story as it shows we have been welcoming large numbers of people fleeing war zones and the Uk remains a very attractive destination for international students.

we need positive migration to mitigate the demographic time bomb
 
I'm angry at Brexit.

I'm merely irritated at you and your tedious propensity to nit-pick while ignoring the elephant in the room - that Brexit has been absolutely shit.
It's your board, and yes, I agree it has its share of "I'm glad I'm not prejudiced like Northerners are" people. But not a majority.
Nothing to do with being Northern or southern. I’m married to a Northerner who thinks the same as me. Brexit has messed up the country even more than it was messed up before.
We may be southerners but we are still working class so cut out the silly reverse snobbery.
 


dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,782
could you just whizz through all of the brexit benefits again, please, ta

probably a bit quicker!
One benefit is clearly that we have the right to control who comes into the country. The obvious downside is that we haven't yet found politicians who can do that. I suspect the entrenched incompetence of the Home Office hasn't helped.

I know that in high wage areas like Brighton, you rather like the idea of shedloads of low paid foreigners coming in and driving down wages as low as possible, because it makes your stuff cheaper. In low wage areas like Burnley, the attraction of the low wages being driven down even lower is harder to appreciate.
 

rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
You may have missed the point about what tolerance is. Tolerance does not mean agreeing with your opinion, it means accepting your right to have it, and not calling you rude names if I disagree with you.
manners would dictate that you reason your point and address others' issues

if you follow this logic, you will eventually arrive at the truth!
 

rogersix

Members
Jan 18, 2014
6,995
One benefit is clearly that we have the right to control who comes into the country. The obvious downside is that we haven't yet found politicians who can do that. I suspect the entrenched incompetence of the Home Office hasn't helped.

I know that in high wage areas like Brighton, you rather like the idea of shedloads of low paid foreigners coming in and driving down wages as low as possible, because it makes your stuff cheaper. In low wage areas like Burnley, the attraction of the low wages being driven down even lower is harder to appreciate.
are you saying rejoin the eu and raise the minimum wage?
 

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