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[Politics] Brexit

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If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    943

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
27,933
Hove
Is Putin not responsible for most of that, along with climate change?
Putin isn't responsible for the likes of the US and UK massively increasing the wealth gap between the richest and poorest in their economies which feel the shock of events far more acutely than more progressive economies that have mantained a standard of living for their lowest earners so that despite an energy crisis, or covid there is still a maintained standard of living. Throw Brexit into the mix, and it is our own decisions that have made us worse off than other comparable economies.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
33,351
Yes, but I'm not actually all that interested in Richard Hughes' predictions, either of the long term 4% GDP damage or of the predicted inflation rate of 4.4%. I don't deal in out-of-date predictions.

It has been said that Brexit has cost the UK economy more than twice what covid cost. I can find actual numbers for covid. Where are the actual numbers for Brexit - with, if need be, actual numbers of forecast losses? It's prefectly obvious that lost exports aren't costing the country hundreds of billions a year, because EU exports (for various reasons) are currently higher than ever. So what are the actual costs of Brexit that add up to such a huge number?
can save you a lot of time here, the cited 4% hit to GDP is an estimate to 2030. the combined effects of brexit and covid is about the same 4% to date, estimates allocate about 2% to each. so it is said the GDP impact in total is about double in the long run. the total cost of Covid is not a loss to GDP as the money was spent in the economy, just as import/exports haven't gone to zero, so those are wrong numbers to start from. on inflation the numbers across Europe are the similar, no way to realistically attribute to anything other than global macro effects.
 
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dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
can save you a lot of time here, the cited 4% hit to GDP is an estimate to 2030. the combined effects of brexit and covid is about the same 4% to date, estimates allocate about 2% to each. so it is said the GDP impact in total is about double in the long run. the total cost of Covid is not a loss to GDP as the money was spent in the economy, just as import/exports havent gone to zero, so those are wrong numbers to start from. on inflation the numbers across Europe are the similar, no way to realistically attribute to anything other than global macro effects.
The total cost of covid is a cost in general. It's money spent that must be repaid, or collected in tax, or inflated out of existence. Whether any of those things affect GDP or not, it is still a cost.
 

dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
Sane people: Brexit is the cause of tens of billions of pounds of damage to the economy, as well as the needless loss of rights.
You: Where's the evidence?
Sane people: Here, see these 46 links.
You: <picks one link> this one is saying inflation is 4% higher than it would be without Brexit, where is the evidence?

etc etc

How about you just concentrate on finding ONE tangible benefit in response, instead of making yourself look like a needlessly contrary cock?
Why do Brexit arguments always come down to "I am clever and you are stupid so I will call you rude names"?

I can't produce evidence of the quality that Watfordzero produced in his initial 6 links (I haven't read the extra ones added later), but those six mostly consisted a one man;s prediction that GDP in 2030 would be 2% less than it would have been without Brexit, and that inflation in 2022 might reach 4.4%. I can't prove him wrong about the former.

Tangible benefits of leaving the EU? We aren't in the EU. If we hadn't had three PMs to run the process who were incompetent or dishonest or both to a great degree, we might see tangible benefits as well as intangible. But incompetent politicians aren't purely the result of Brexit.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
33,351
The total cost of covid is a cost in general. It's money spent that must be repaid, or collected in tax, or inflated out of existence. Whether any of those things affect GDP or not, it is still a cost.
sure but you cant directly compare cost of Covid with trade to % GDP growth. you end up compounding confusion about the original data. the cost of Covid contributed to GDP (includes government expenditure). GDP growth now will be lower due to the total fall in production due mostly to Covid. GDP growth over 12 years will be lower due to brexit effects.
 

dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
sure but you cant directly compare cost of Covid with trade to % GDP growth. you end up compounding confusion about the original data. the cost of Covid contributed to GDP (includes government expenditure). GDP growth now will be lower due to the total fall in production due mostly to Covid. GDP growth over 12 years will be lower due to brexit effects.
Surely the vast amounts of government borrowing will have an effect on future GDP? Even if they don't, they'll have an effect on future wealth.
 

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Members
Jul 27, 2004
9,081
saaf of the water
Benefits of Brexit?

I've said it on here, numerous times, that I'd rather be in the EU than out - but, as the owner of a Company that sells 100% overseas, the collapse of the £ against the USD and € post June 2016 saw our sales significantly increase - in effect our prices to our Customers fell.

More paperwork and hassle selling to the EU - absolutely (especially in the last year) but sales still strong with the € at approx. 1.2.
 


WATFORD zero

Members
Jul 10, 2003
21,493
But incompetent politicians aren't purely the result of Brexit.
Cameron resigned as a result of Brexit, May went as a result of Brexit, Johnson got PM and then got elected with a large majority as a result of Brexit and consequently appointed a cabinet of Brexiteers including Braverman, Sunak, Kwarteng and numerous others with absolutely no cabinet experience (and Truss and Gove with experience :facepalm: ), whilst sidelining nearly all other experienced Tory politicians as they hadn't supported him/Brexit.

So the last 3 years of completely incompetent politicians have been as a direct result of Brexit :shrug:
 
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Guinness Boy

Vamos La Tri
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,029
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Surely the vast amounts of government borrowing will have an effect on future GDP? Even if they don't, they'll have an effect on future wealth.
Talking of future wealth, how's the Brexit dividend and levelling up going in your home town? I imagine Burnley is currently halfway to looking like Sydney's CBD and the educated liberal elite are flocking there in thousands. Probably not too many bargains left when it comes to brick terraces?
 

dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
Talking of future wealth, how's the Brexit dividend and levelling up going in your home town? I imagine Burnley is currently halfway to looking like Sydney's CBD and the educated liberal elite are flocking there in thousands. Probably not too many bargains left when it comes to brick terraces?
I think you've pretty much summed up the reason certain politicians are so unpopular, especially round here. Whether you are tongue in cheek or not, there is a type of person who believes that they genuinely have a more valuable opinion than the lower orders because they went to the right university, they hold the right opinions, they think they are better people.

There are a lot of them on this board. If you ever thought this place was liberal, then unthink it. It's supremely intolerant of contrary opinions.
 

dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
Talking of future wealth, how's the Brexit dividend and levelling up going in your home town? I imagine Burnley is currently halfway to looking like Sydney's CBD and the educated liberal elite are flocking there in thousands. Probably not too many bargains left when it comes to brick terraces?
Incidentally, there aren't that many brick terraces in Burnley. Accrington's the place where they built everything in brick.
 
Cameron resigned as a result of Brexit, May went as a result of Brexit, Johnson got PM and then got elected with a large majority as a result of Brexit and consequently appointed a cabinet of Brexiteers including Braverman, Sunak, Kwarteng and numerous others with absolutely no cabinet experience (and Truss and Gove with experience :facepalm: ), whilst sidelining nearly all other experienced Tory politicians as they hadn't supported him/Brexit.

So the last 3 years of completely incompetent politicians have been as a direct result of Brexit :shrug:
Five Prime Ministers in 6 years and 80 Ministerial resignations, but all's well in Brexit land.
 


Simster

Members
Jul 7, 2003
51,648
Surrey
I think you've pretty much summed up the reason certain politicians are so unpopular, especially round here. Whether you are tongue in cheek or not, there is a type of person who believes that they genuinely have a more valuable opinion than the lower orders because they went to the right university, they hold the right opinions, they think they are better people.

There are a lot of them on this board. If you ever thought this place was liberal, then unthink it. It's supremely intolerant of contrary opinions.
No, it's intolerant of STUPID opinions, opinions that don't stand up to rational argument and opinions where the moron giving it doesn't even try to argue it properly.
 

dsr-burnley

Members
Aug 15, 2014
1,698
No, it's intolerant of STUPID opinions, opinions that don't stand up to rational argument and opinions where the moron giving it doesn't even try to argue it properly.
Exactly. If you only tolerate opinions you agree with, then you are 100% intolerant.

Your anger and attitude says a lot about you but nothing about me.
 

WATFORD zero

Members
Jul 10, 2003
21,493
No, it's intolerant of STUPID opinions, opinions that don't stand up to rational argument and opinions where the moron giving it doesn't even try to argue it properly.
I was going to say that NSC is extremely tolerant of opinions that have validity

valid
/ˈvalɪd/
adjective
(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

And not so tolerant of those that don't, but I guess your words work just as well :lolol:
 
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Guinness Boy

Vamos La Tri
All-powerful Moderator
Jul 23, 2003
28,029
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Exactly. If you only tolerate opinions you agree with, then you are 100% intolerant.

Your anger and attitude says a lot about you but nothing about me.
And how tolerant are you of the opinion that Burnley is absolutely stuffed full of the sort of Sun reading thickwits who still point at any aeroplane that isn't dragging a "White Lives Matter" banner???
 

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