anyone see the Video last night of Beslan

[Dave the OAP]

I think that nails on the head the idea that they were going to end it peacefully..

Did you see that bastards walking round with bottles of water when they wouldn't let children have drinks?

 

[Fluffster]

And that hostage taker with his foot on a detenator pointing to it as if he was proud. Wankers.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Heart wrenching.

 

[Titanic]

It was truly horrific... it's very hard to know what you can do to prevent it happening again when people are willing to kill themselves like this -and to terrorize and kill children and women.

 

[Albion Dan]

The way to stop this happening is to take away the cause. Sort out the Russian occupation of Chechnya and stop the horrific abuses of the civuillian population there. Likewise get those Israeli bastards to stop persecuting the Palestinians, nicking their land and give them their own state, straight away you would take away the cause of most Islamic fundamentalists.

Unfortunately now that lunatic Bush is going to get another term in office we are all doomed as neither will happen.

 

[looney]

What Dan is saying is give in to anyone who threatens you. Thats not how I wish to live or expect any government to act.


Bush isn't a lunatic, its a leftwing smear campaign,

Look what the democrats were saying then look at the "links" with Halliburton.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998


Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998


"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998


"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998


"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999


"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." – Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001


"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002


"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002


"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002


"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime . He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation .... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003



Haliburton connections.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp

 

[looney]

Oh and Dan the cause of Islamic Fundementalists is worlwide Domination. Through conversion, forced and otherwise mass immigration and war/terror.

Read the Koran its all in there, slaughtering kids is nothing new. They did it in algeria in the early 90's, whenMohammed died and they came steamimg out of arabia they killed every christian man woman and Child in Egypt.


Before WW2 a million people in the UK signed an anti-war petition, you wont be slagging of Bush to your grand children I'm sure.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The whole subject is really pissing me off now. I am sick and tired of people trying to justify 9/11, Madrid, Bali, Beslan.

People have jumped down from throat for criticsing Islamic Fundamenalists and be outrageously been accused of a bigot, rascist and anti Muslim which are all untrue.

Why are some people so keen to try and see it from the terrrorists point of view ?. I just don't understand it.

THEY WAS NO REASON OR JUSTIFiCATION FOR BESLAN AND ANYONE THAT THINKS THERE WAS OR TRIES TO REASON IT ARE GIVING THE EXCUSE FOR THE NEXT ATTROCITY.

 

[Blackadder]

Yes, that video was sickening.

Couldn't help thinking, "How may of those people are alive now?"

Hoping that every Terrorist I saw, was dead!!!!!!

Imagine what the poor parents are going through, seeing their children for the last time in total fear!

 

[FG aka FOOTBALL GENIUS]

cant believe AOL especially being American (with 9/11 in mind) have a link showing the footage (even if conatins a warning of the horrific nature/content etc) of no doubt very sick scenes indeed not read above cant dont no disrespect to those that added n odont the same like anger, outrage, disbelief and wishes that the countries /people involved can return to a peaceful existance and the trauma of the survivers sumhow slowly gets better and RIP those that have died in this awful hell on earth and the very very very best wishes for recovery and normality for those injured and struggling for there lives now. Any support our government /country can kend with intelligence etc to prevent such happening in future and assistance with security in schools etc we should be doing without hesitation. im not saying there anything wrong with anyone that watches the video after all a lot of us watch horror dvds etc but this is REAL and that makes it to me anyway and im sure many others even more horrific X rated, personally i choose not to watch it, i get nothing but upset outrage anger dispear at the way human life is innocently especially the kids ripped away by cowards that no nothing but violence and in a very very very sickenning way. My (sorry if im rambling) point was i cant understand why an American ISP have footage of the video and why anyone would want to view it. Like say thats just my opinion and im NOT saying if you view it you are wrong i simply cant understand why anyone would want to view. RIP those whisked upstairs early and hope there end on earth was as quick and painless as possible in the awful circumstances hard to understand. I dont know or want to know what the political motives etc were of the animals that inflicted this, thats of NO interest to me, the sick way in which the deaths of innocent humans were taken does concern me. I think any political cause or whatever they were after is long lost by outrage of the outcome. Yes im outraged this footage is available for the world to see, how would the parents, families etc of those affected feel with their loved ones suffering being shown ariund the globe to me that isnt right. Sod free news and all that there are times when you simply DONT show the visual images that will offend others and i believe this is one of them.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

it was on the french news channel when i was in french. it was horrific

 

[FG aka FOOTBALL GENIUS]

im not reading above my post here i really dont want hear about the horrific way these humans suffered/died but ben andrews g'f i think on your posting im gonna give the news a miss for a while, never mind the 9 o' clock watershed for kids if this is on News 24 etc then never mind the x rated movies this should be kept from kids and i hope any parents reading this bear that in mind not that im telling anyone how to parent but at least be informed this is gonna be on the news now for bit and do u want your kids seeing this no i wouldve thought im sure there was plenty of sleepless kids in America after 9/11

 

[CHAPPERS]

The whole subject is really pissing me off now. I am sick and tired of people trying to justify 9/11, Madrid, Bali, Beslan.

Nobody has tried to justify them Fron what I've seen people on here have been attempting to understand why these atrocities are comitted because only then can we, as a people, try to prevent them.

Why are some people so keen to try and see it from the terrrorists point of view ?.

So we know what drives them, so we can take a look at why they are driven to commit these acts.

Finding the cause is the only solution.

 

[Everest]

it was on the french news channel when i was in french.

When you were in French what? Knickers?


Just goes to show that terrorists don't give a damn about innocent people when they say they want to 'trade'.
Don't even bother with court cases. Hunt them all down & shoot them.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The most sensible posts you have ever written FG.

 

[Dave the OAP]

The negotiating with terrorists argument is two fold:

1. You can actually negotiate with terrorists ( as in the IRA) if there is a cause that can be identified and can be "negotiated" about.

2. With the Islamic fundamentalists its different. Yeltzin etc saw the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the Caucuses as a huge threat to the Russian Oil supplies and also access to the Black Sea ports. It is widely believed that Afghanistan was invaded to send a message to these republics to toe the line. Unfortunately it had the opposite effect. Russia cannot afford the Southern Republics to become Islamic States. The Palestinian question is much debated, but again, a fragile form of peace was being observed until Hammas launched suicide bombers into Isreal and it all ignited again.

Again, one could argue how do you negotiate with people who think that dying for a cause is the greatest thing you can do as a human being and if you die you go to paradise?

Those people in that school had no intention of letting anyone out of the school alive. If they did, why when the bomb went off to bring down the ceiling and people started to escape did the terrorists start firing on them when Russian troops were there obviously shooting at the terrorists?

How would one even start to "negotiate" with Bin laden? Where do you start........" what do you want Mr Bin Laden?" " I want all non believers to die" " Ok then, that is over 1/2 of the world's population then" " Yes thats it"

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Spot on as usual Gaffer.

 

[Man of Harveys]

I respectfully disagree. I've long held the view that news footage, like everything else on the telly, should be divided into that which is ok for kids to see and that which isn't. Some sort of watershed divide is, I think, appropriate. I think this is the approach taken in other European countries.

Unquestionably, that repulsive video of the school falls into the latter category - most adults would struggle to get their heads around what's going on there. But I still feel that I have a right to see it and that decision shouldn't be taken by news producers who decide that I shouldn't be allowed to see.
I think it's important that people get to see the true horrors that ensue when terrorists strike, or when countries go to war. It may be revolting but it is the truth. It would get rid a lot of the bullshit jingoism and bullshit jokes that go with it.

(As a slightly unrelated footnote, see the thread about bombing Germany, for example, to which people I thought did have some brain functions going on have contributed. I have a book showing the aftereffects of the bombing - people who burnt to death while crawling along the ground desperate to find oxygen, parents' charred bodies fused onto those of their children's as they tried protect them, that sort of thing).

 

[Sorrel]

Nobody has tried to justify them. From what I've seen people on here have been attempting to understand why these atrocities are comitted because only then can we, as a people, try to prevent them.

Trying to understand what people's grievences are is perfectly acceptable. Translating those problems into murder is not.

For every decent person, each terrorist act lessens the force of the grievence behind the action. For example, the Palestinians would enjoy far more support if no random bombings were carried out in their name.

I think there is a danger of looking more closely at the causes of terrorist actions, when perhaps we should look more closely at the plight of people who do not carry out this kind of attrocity.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

These people are sick and evil. A lot of them are probably along for the ride. How do you know all 30 terrorists had a personal grevance. They must just like killing people.

Also it always get me how brave these people are bullying cowering children wearing their masks of course so noone can see who they are.