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[Albion] Albion u21 v Liverpool u21



Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,798
Seven Dials
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
 




AmexRuislip

Trainee Spy 🕵️‍♂️
Feb 2, 2014
33,801
Ruislip
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
Great post
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,966
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
To me it shows .....

  • Chelsea are laughably bad
  • Enthusiastic energetic youth can trump tired senior pros in extra time in a busy season
  • Liverpool have several big game players that can over-ride the lack of experience of some of their team mates
  • Young players don't develop at a linear rate
  • Even amidst an injury crisis, we don't tend to pick from the u23s. You're normally either training with the first team or an u23 player, not both. Maybe Liverpool are more fluid
  • We're more likely than Liverpool to loan out our "nearly readies" rather than keep them in the u23's
  • For that u23 game in January, we had a great game and won 4-2, but it was anomalous in the sense that they are above us in PL2
 


amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,198
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
That is very interesting. From what I saw of Liv erpools last 2 games the toungsters they used were oozing with confidence and wanted to make the most of opportunity. Completley opposite to Peupion and Baker-Booaity last night. Great opportunity for them but both fluffed it. Both in vital attacking roles but neither was willing to take it it by the balls even if it didnt come off. Instead in forward positions most of time both just passed it back.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,716
Gloucester
To me it shows .....

  • Chelsea are laughably bad
  • Enthusiastic energetic youth can trump tired senior pros in extra time in a busy season
  • Liverpool have several big game players that can over-ride the lack of experience of some of their team mates
  • Young players don't develop at a linear rate
  • Even amidst an injury crisis, we don't tend to pick from the u23s. You're normally either training with the first team or an u23 player, not both. Maybe Liverpool are more fluid
  • We're more likely than Liverpool to loan out our "nearly readies" rather than keep them in the u23's
  • For that u23 game in January, we had a great game and won 4-2, but it was anomalous in the sense that they are above us in PL2
Are we more likely to loan out 'nearly readies' than Liverpool? How many Liverpool youngsters are out on loan?
 






GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,716
Gloucester
I’d say Leonard and Moran are both possibles for next season - worth a try in preseason anyway
If Leonard is as good as Northampton fans think he is, then definitely! I'd add Weir and Sarmiento to those two as well - and maybe we'll finally find our new no.1 GK is already on the books!
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
That is very interesting. From what I saw of Liv erpools last 2 games the toungsters they used were oozing with confidence and wanted to make the most of opportunity. Completley opposite to Peupion and Baker-Booaity last night. Great opportunity for them but both fluffed it. Both in vital attacking roles but neither was willing to take it it by the balls even if it didnt come off. Instead in forward positions most of time both just passed it back.
I'm going to die on the hill that Peupion was quite good last night :p
 








Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
That is very interesting. From what I saw of Liv erpools last 2 games the toungsters they used were oozing with confidence and wanted to make the most of opportunity. Completley opposite to Peupion and Baker-Booaity last night. Great opportunity for them but both fluffed it. Both in vital attacking roles but neither was willing to take it it by the balls even if it didnt come off. Instead in forward positions most of time both just passed it back.
Does look to me though sometimes that our more experienced players don't seem particularly keen to pass it to some of these younger less experienced players. The likes of Baker-Boiaty at times took up decent positions but didn't receive the ball. By contrast watching the cup final on Sunday, Liverpool continued with the same patterns of play despite the inexperience of the people being passed to.
 




GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,716
Gloucester
Are we more likely to loan out 'nearly readies' than Liverpool? How many Liverpool youngsters are out on loan?
After a bit of googling - Liverpool have the same number of players out on loan as we do - seventeen. Obviously some of ours are not U21s - Alzate, Undav, Rushworth, and Dahoud at least - and I think Scherpen and Leonard too (and there maybe more); don't know what the ages of Liverpool's seventeen are though, but overall we seem to be about equal in our loaning out of 'nearly readies'..
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
yes defended and chased back well but in attack !
Well he played as a wing back, and he stuck to his wing well. Our best move of the first half came down the right when he played a one-two with Fati and got into a great position to shoot, unfortunately he didn't connect the shot with any power. I was comparing him mainly to Hinshelwood when playing that position, as a new guy coming in for his first start at the top level, and I thought both were similar in mainly playing the ball inside to the CB when they got it deep, or inside to the CM when getting it in a forward position, but if anything Peupion was braver, looking forward, willing to attempt dribbles (and winning a couple of free kicks) and getting involved in the aforementioned move. I don't think anyone should have expected much more than that, but he looked quite a natural wingback and I think he can be proud of his efforts.
 








Garry Nelson's Left Foot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
13,118
tokyo
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
I'm not sure you can read anything into one U21 result and who played in it.

That Liverpool have a well established academy that has a long history of producing some of the best players in England should be considered too. Especially when ours is so new.

You could also factor in that along with Offiah, Peupion, Baker-Boaitey and Mark Mahoney who you mention have all been in first team squads Hinshelwood has broken into the first team and 19 year olds Ferguson and Buonanotte are regulars too.

How many teenagers are first team regulars at Liverpool? I believe Ferguson turned Liverpool down to join us because of the pathway to the first team. If he'd joined Liverpool instead maybe he would have been one of those 'who are they?' kids brought on in the second half rather than a player playing first team premier league football week in week out.
 


AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,724
Chandler, AZ
Back in January, our under-21s beat Liverpool 4-2 at Lancing. Our team was Fisher: Offiah (Nilsson), Simmonds (Atom), McConville; Ifill (Smith), Knight, Chouchane, Slater; Howell (Albarus), Flower, Mullins. Scorers were Howell 2, Flower and Mullins.

But here's the thing. The Liverpool team that evening included Bobby Clark, Jason McConnell, Jayden Danns and Lewis Koumas. They were all on the bench for Liverpool in the League Cup final and three of them were sent on and collected winners' medals. All four played in the 3-0 victory over Southampton last night, as did Treymaurice Nyoni, while two others who played at Lancing were non-playing substitutes.

Jurgen Klopp obviously has great faith in his youngsters, and it paid off against Chelsea. Yet only one of the Albion side who beat them that night has even made it to our first-team bench since then, despite our injury crisis - Odel Offiah was a non-playing sub at Molineux.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this, if any. Is Liverpool's injury crisis worse than ours? Are our under-21s not good enough, not good enough yet, or are they not as good as Liverpool's (the 4-2 win suggests otherwise)?

I'm hoping that they're just not quite good enough *yet*. Harry Howell and Freddie Simmonds are both England under-16 internationals but they're too young, even to be listed among the u18s on the club website along with Joe Knight. But, given how many players we have been missing, I would have thought that left back Jacob Slater (19) or Tunisia international Samy Chouchane (who signed a new contract in December) and one or two others might have made a squad or two.

True, Cam Peupion, Benicio Baker-Boaitey and Mark O'Mahony, who are under-21 regulars but didn't play against Liverpool, have figured in RDZ's squads, but as a wiser man than myself once said, you can prove anything with facts ...
Interesting post - I do feel duty bound to point out that numerous other U-21s HAVE been included in some RDZ squads: Jack Hinchy, Samy Chouchane, Ben Jackson, Leigh Kavanagh and Joshua Duffus have all been included in Europa League matchday squads. Joshua Duffus came on in a pretty important victory in Athens! Jack Hinchy played at Stoke in the FA Cup.

However, I think you are missing the fact that our best U-21s are ALREADY critical members of the first team squad. It is probably best to think of this in terms of the year group that players fall into. For instance:-

Liverpool's Jarell Quansah and Conor Bradley are a year group OLDER than Enciso, Barco and Baleba. They are two years older than Ferguson, Buonanotte and Hinshelwood.

Liverpool's James McConnell and Bobby Clark are the same year group as Ferguson, Buonanotte and Hinshelwood.

It is really only Lewis Koumas (who only made his debut last night) and Jayden Danns (who has now made three substitute appearances) who are younger than any player RDZ has yet fielded.

My takeaway: Liverpool have got a f***ing long way to go before their U-21s have played anywhere near as much as Albion's.
 






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