[Albion] We are the idiots, not Hughton

blue-shifted said:

Won't shout you down Shooting Star, but I have a question.

Do you think Hughton changed the formation due to fan pressure?

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This.

Icy Gull said:

Anyone who thinks that us fans have pushed CH into changing his tactics is a bit of a nutter

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And this.

Don Quixote said:

The sleepwalking into a relegation battle is Hughton’s fault. He’s the manager and he has to take responsibility for it. The fans have nothing to do with it.

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And also this.

At the time of posting this the OP has 46 thumbs up.
Have I missed something?

bn9 bha said:

This.


And this.




And also this.

At the time of posting this the OP has 46 thumbs up.
Have I missed something?

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I don't think you've missed anything BN9.
I think the thumbs up are really fingers in ears.............'I don't want to hear anything horrid about Chris Hughton, 'cos he's a nice man!'

I think the reality is that probably everyone concerned has their small share of responsibility. Part of the problem for us as fans is we can see what's gone wrong, but we are not privy to why or how.

As far as the manager is concerned, I have been frustrated with some of his selections, particularly Stephens for me personally. At the same time, I know that Hughton knows far more about the game than I do, has far more insight into training and mentality than I do. You then have to be realistic and accept that he is obviously not trying to get it wrong, he's trying to pick the team with the best chance of getting a result.

Having said there are individual selections I would quibble with, I think in terms of tactics we have to live in the real world. Much as playing like Brazil 70 would be attractive, let's be clear, we would get smashed every week if we opened up. I can only think of 2 teams in the Premier League who attack regardless of opponent. Beyond that, if you want to survive in the league, you absolutely have to think about defence first. There are top 6 clubs who sit back and try and nick a goal. For us, we have to be honest: our goal is survival in the league. I cannot agree with those who argue we should attack and go down in flames - make no mistake, it would be very tough to get back out of the Championship.

As far as fans are concerned, everyone wants the club to do well. I'm not sure it's fair to say "Chris doesn't listen, we want to attack", and then later claim "As if he listens to us". Let's be clear, the fans in and out of the stadium can be heard by the club and they are influential, though obviously I accept that doesn't make them responsible for tactics. But we cannot deny any part in proceedings. I have mentioned I'm not a fan of Stephens, but I can also see that 10,000 people reacting negatively live is hardly going to help him play better and in fact is going to make him play more conservatively to avoid mistakes. On a personal note, I'd also say I have a frustration in the stadium with fans who clearly don't have a clue about the game: shouting at us to lump it up rather than play out from the back, yelling for a cross the second we get in ther half and yelling 'shoot' every time the ball gets within 30 yards of the goal - all these are ridiculous and make it more difficult for the players.

Which brings us to the players themselves. Is there the same hunger and fear of conceding that we had a year ago? Definitely not. Duffy and Dunk were near 100% in every minute of every game last season, it was like their lives depended on not conceding. We have lost that hunger. Is it complacency? Perhaps - human nature would dictate that you cannot keep up that level of intensity forever. There could well be reasons we don't know about- have they been tapped by other clubs? Are they fit? There are plenty of other factors - refs have clearly become much more cynical about giving Murray free kicks which doesn't help us relieve pressure. Locadia and Jahanbakhsh have just not worked - again, there's a dilemma here in that they probably need a run in the team to get confident but we cannot afford to carry them to give them a run. I don't have an issue with Stephens passing sideways or backwards (possession is crucial) but I do have an issue with how long he takes on the ball and his lack of closing down (Saturday's first goal, he allowed him to run 40 yards with the ball without pressure). Our current full backs don't overlap as much as Bruno and Bong which makes us less of a threat (is that them or have the been instructed?). Locadia and Jahanbakhsh rarely take on players; Izzy does but always tries to cut inside and shoot, Knocky does but his body language and sulking when things don't go well are detrimental, March is hit and miss. Ultimately that is what you get with a squad of our level - there are 30-40 million pound players out there who can't cross or beat a man consistently.

For me, we would be crazy to get rid of Hughton. I don't see things as his 'fault', though it his responsibility. And that's the bit we can only speculate about - if the players genuinely have lost faith, even if they are wrong, can he get that back? All of that will shake out in the summer. For now, it would be self harm to replace the manager at this stage. So as fans, we can do one of two things: do what we can to keep the team up by supporting, or undermine the confidence of the club further by moaning and stirring. If you're right and Chris goes at the end of the season, that's fine, but if you believe, as I do, that the best thing for the club is to play in the Premier League, then I'd suggest swallowing your concerns for now and do what you can to lift the team. I know some see that as happy-clapping but I personally can't see how screaming at the players or in here helps.

NooBHA said:

And No 5 is - When your default position is ''sack the manager'' there is no turning back - I would love to go back and read your posts in the season the club avoided Relegation from the Championship. That was probably sack the Manager as well but I can't be bothered to look back and find out.

This is a difficult time and the football hasn't been great. But it is at a level of football a lot higher than it was when CH arrived. And that is down to 3 years of hard work from that guy. No one makes no mistakes but mistakes are best resolved by someone who finds their own mistakes and rectifies them rather than someone who comes in and blames a previous regime if they can't resolve it. Your ''default position'' might seem'' like a fix but it isn't.

There isn't a stroke of a pen which is a fix. It took CH 3 years to fix what went before. If you want to wait 3 years to fix what you think might be broken then your ''default position is a valid one; however, what if you wait 30 years which Liverpool have had to do. What then?

Anyone who started to take one of their kids to matches for the first time 3 years ago have been spoilt. Those kids are fans for life now. I guarantee they wouldn't all be fans for life if they were getting battered in the Championship week in week out. Not only did CH build a team to get to the PL but captured the imagination of everyone in and around Brighton during that period.

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Look I am open debate with you, but lets get the differing position we view this current scenario.
I am a Brighton fan in his mid 50s that has watched the club since the early 70s, so my passion runs deep for the Albion.
You appear to be a Hughton fan who follows the Albion until he moves elsewhere.
Chris Hughton has not fixed this and it's always an ongoing project.
For the record while watching Hyypia I always felt we were enjoyable and had a chance to win games and he just didn't have the budget and hence the personnel to get over the line.
Hughton was given the budget to get to the Prem, who knows what Hyypia could have done with that budget?
Okay so it didnt work for Hyppia and it isnt for Chris so time for change and maybe our team can spring to life again.
You are welcome to keep following the Albion but something tells me you be off on another forum with his new team.

I did say on another thread that PERHAPS the answer was to bring in a motivator to pick the players up but the best one in the world will not stop the players making elementary mistakes like against Cardiff when a number of them were passing to players in the wrong colour shirt or having their passes intercepted.We must get back to basic which showed during the best part of the season and play to our strengths. If that is enough all will be well if not we will go down fighting.

Mouldy Boots said:

Look I am open debate with you, but lets get the differing position we view this current scenario.
I am a Brighton fan in his mid 50s that has watched the club since the early 70s, so my passion runs deep for the Albion.
You appear to be a Hughton fan who follows the Albion until he moves elsewhere.
Chris Hughton has not fixed this and it's always an ongoing project.
For the record while watching Hyypia I always felt we were enjoyable and had a chance to win games and he just didn't have the budget and hence the personnel to get over the line.
Hughton was given the budget to get to the Prem, who knows what Hyypia could have done with that budget?
Okay so it didnt work for Hyppia and it isnt for Chris so time for change and maybe our team can spring to life again.
You are welcome to keep following the Albion but something tells me you be off on another forum with his new team.

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You possibly summarised your response very well. Except one point. I wasn't making reference to Hypia. I wondered about your views on Chris in the period when he inherited a squad on route to League One. He played god damn awful in an attempt to stay up. Making it with the skin of his teeth. Was your view at the end of that period. " Sack the Manager" ?.

If so . In hindsight he went on to build a team full of players that attacked their way out of that League.

When you go up you need to overhaul the squad again and that seems to have been difficult. The new players are decent players but they have found it difficult to find a breakthrough in games recently and when that hasn't happened their heads have gone down. I see it myself. It isn't pretty but to say that it is impossible for the Manager to turn it round. I don't believe that. This season has become a sort of fire fighting exercise. Then try and stay up then take stock of the squad of players. It's impossible for any recruitment team to get things spot on. More than 50% of players who come to the PL don't make it and move on within 24 months

Icy Gull said:

I totally get why you are so strong in your defence of CH. I’d like to know your take on why a team that worked so hard for each other has slowly fallen apart game by game until they looked like players who had never played together before once we went behind against Cardiff. Is it really just a confidence thing or do you believe there is more to it than that?

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I actually think they are struggling with the pressure. I don't think there is anything more sinister.

Mouldy Boots said:

Look I am open debate with you, but lets get the differing position we view this current scenario.
I am a Brighton fan in his mid 50s that has watched the club since the early 70s, so my passion runs deep for the Albion.
You appear to be a Hughton fan who follows the Albion until he moves elsewhere.
Chris Hughton has not fixed this and it's always an ongoing project.
For the record while watching Hyypia I always felt we were enjoyable and had a chance to win games and he just didn't have the budget and hence the personnel to get over the line.
Hughton was given the budget to get to the Prem, who knows what Hyypia could have done with that budget?
Okay so it didnt work for Hyppia and it isnt for Chris so time for change and maybe our team can spring to life again.
You are welcome to keep following the Albion but something tells me you be off on another forum with his new team.

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Hyppia was a great player and a shit manager. We are not the only club to have found this out

I think tactics are significant up to a point. The real culprit though gas been complacency. It can be traced back to the 2-4 against Fulham. The team discovered it can be turned over. That complacency became negatively, perhaps encouraged by Hughton's tactics but more likely by something going wrong with the collective mentality of the players. They've become terrified of losing. Fear stalks every move they make. What began as laziness is now a full on crisis. I doubt whether Hughton paid much attention to the fans. I hope not. And I don't really blame him for what's happened. The players' attitude has been dreadful lately. The only answer is to keep playing the odds. All out attacking football now will guarantee relegation. The players need to get their heads straight. They need to fight for their lives. Win every second ball. Hughton can only do so much.