[Politics] Home secretary: 'Knife crime can't go on'

Bold Seagull · Mar 4, 2019

portlock seagull said:
Not true. The authorities, parents, community leaders and just about everyone else have said this repeatedly over the years every time any black kid is stabbed. Sadly it will only get worse. That train left the station a long time ago. Kids, gangs, drugs, organised crime, fractured families not to mention hormones are a powerful cocktail which the state has no chance of arresting. I just thank my lucky stars I live in a relatively safe place and my path doesn't cross such people.

Violent crime continues to fall however. We have to tackle violent crime, and a child being killed by another child speaks far more about society than statistics, politics etc. We're seeing across this thread people's 'perceptions' of danger, rhetoric like 'the train has left the station', largely fueled by media coverage and representation. The state can however arrest these trends, can alter behaviours if there is the commitment to address the root causes.

There has been a downward trend in violent crime, but perhaps we are just starting to see a change in that trend at the end of austerity, where the say 6 year old kids when austerity started, are now leaving school. Those services, community engagements, properly funded outreach programmes have all largely been cut back or disappeared. Same happened at toward the start of the 90s where we had a spike in violent crime statistics.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

Not Andy Naylor said:
Look at some of the tabloid front pages. I don't recall seeing such big pictures of black stabbing victims.

I never read the tabloids, I'd like to think most educated people don't.

BLOCK F · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
Not spoiling at all, but you've pigeon holed your argument after telling me fatherless figures go stab people - initially. It just doesn't have to be loving fathers that keep you away from crime and violence, in fact some fathers are responsible for leading their kids down the wrong path, sport for example can keep you from having bad attitudes and devious thoughts, that was my role model. There is so much more to it than just fathers or mothers indeed.

Tosh Nomad, I did not say fatherless figures go and stab people.You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said.
Anyway, it appears you are 'on one' with this thread so I am quite happy to let you carry on and bang away to your heart's desire.
Goodbye.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

BLOCK F said:
Tosh Nomad, I did not say fatherless figures go and stab people.You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said.
Anyway, it appears you are 'on one' with this thread so I am quite happy to let you carry on and bang away to your heart's desire.
Goodbye.

So you make a comment assuming fatherless figures cause crime, have no way of backing it up and therefore blame me for wanting an argument. Great stuff, well done.

Chicken Run · Mar 4, 2019

Not Andy Naylor said:
Look at some of the tabloid front pages. I don't recall seeing such big pictures of black stabbing victims.

Stephan Lawrence?

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

Chicken Run said:
Stephan Lawrence?

Precisely, was going to write this myself. If one person ever got more media space in this country than Stephen Lawrence I would like to know who. It is the fact that some 6 people have been stabbed to death in the past 10 or so days which is making headlines, not because two white kids got killed.

SeagullinExile · Mar 4, 2019

portslade seagull said:
It's not just known crims though. Stop and search was the best weapon for the rozzers but it's not allowed

Unfortunately the Police can’t be trusted with such powers. It’s open to abuse, and would be abused at times.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

SeagullinExile said:
Unfortunately the Police can’t be trusted with such powers. It’s open to abuse, and would be abused at times.

Abuse in all walks of life, politicians are probably at the top of abuse of power. Cops are far less abusive of powers than in any time in my life that I remember.

daveinplzen · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
Precisely, was going to write this myself. If one person ever got more media space in this country than Stephen Lawrence I would like to know who. It is the fact that some 6 people have been stabbed to death in the past 10 or so days which is making headlines, not because two white kids got killed.

Wasnt the media coverage more about the police actions rather than the actual murder?

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

daveinplzen said:
Wasnt the media coverage more about the police actions rather than the actual murder?

No, I think you're going off tangent, it was claimed that white kids get stabbed to death and suddenly it becomes headline news, when the fact is when kids get stabbed to death it becomes news, whatever their race, colour or creed. But the person that dies soon becomes anonymous. The media have kept the Stephen Lawrence story going for 15 years or more? It ain't all about white kids, it's about kids. Take race out of the equation.

portlock seagull · Mar 4, 2019

Unquestionably there's been a rise in kids 'fearlessness' when it comes to confrontation and aggression, not just amongst peers but against members of the public including adults twice their size and age. Coupled with a complete lack of respect for others and propensity to immediate violence, and knowing there's little sanction for such behaviour/if they come out worse the law's on their side, it's no wonder stabbings are up. I say this based on experience of others and myself. Those stats may paint a picture otherwise but they're almost certainly deeply flawed / can be picked apart by an expert as most statistics can be. I wouldn't trust them because it's not what I hear and see in my local community and as said, I'm lucky to live in a relatively nice one rather than e.g. downtown tower hamlets

SeagullinExile · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
Abuse in all walks of life, politicians are probably at the top of abuse of power. Cops are far less abusive of powers than in any time in my life that I remember.

Ok. But, lets be honest, not every copper is as honest as we’d like. So that means these powers will be abused at times. For that reason we can’t allow it. Harsher sentences will do nothing. Its a problem with society in my opinion.

Bold Seagull · Mar 4, 2019

Chicken Run said:
Stephan Lawrence?

Sussex Nomad said:
Precisely, was going to write this myself. If one person ever got more media space in this country than Stephen Lawrence I would like to know who. It is the fact that some 6 people have been stabbed to death in the past 10 or so days which is making headlines, not because two white kids got killed.

Stephen Lawrence murder really only made local news directly after his murder. The Independent was the only national to cover it the following day on page 4. Rolan Adams was stabbed to death not 2 miles away from Lawrence in 1991 and received barely any coverage either.

National coverage didn't really embrace the Lawrence story until much later in '97 when the Mail decided to go against normal press retrospection with their headline 'Murderers'.

Not Andy Naylor · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
I never read the tabloids, I'd like to think most educated people don't.

I don't think it's necessary to read tabloids to see pictures on their front pages. But perhaps you choose to avert your eyes when walking past racks at garages, newsagents or in supermarkets.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

Not Andy Naylor said:
I don't think it's necessary to read tabloids to see pictures on their front pages. But perhaps you choose to avert your eyes when walking past racks at garages, newsagents or in supermarkets.

I seriously never ever look at the paper rack, in all sincerity.

darkwolf666 · Mar 4, 2019

narly101 said:
Impose a Child Licence. I don't think it's got anything to do with "having children" being "your" human right, no one ever asked to be born.

Yep, that's the sort of social engineering I was talking about...

What would the questions be?

Do you have a criminal record
What's your income
Do you have a disability
Do you fit the "norm"?

Think this was tried in Nazi Germany!

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
Stephen Lawrence murder really only made local news directly after his murder. The Independent was the only national to cover it the following day on page 4. Rolan Adams was stabbed to death not 2 miles away from Lawrence in 1991 and received barely any coverage either.

National coverage didn't really embrace the Lawrence story until much later in '97 when the Mail decided to go against normal press retrospection with their headline 'Murderers'.

But when they did they went to town on it. The story was huge for many years and pretty much still is. I don't see any correlation in race, colour or creed when it comes to knife/gun murder.

Bold Seagull · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
But when they did they went to town on it. The story was huge for many years and pretty much still is. I don't see any correlation in race, colour or creed when it comes to knife/gun murder.

The Lawrence murder is obviously a land mark case because the murderers were not bought to justice because of institutional racism, and corruption of some officers.

The media picked up on the story once they realised this wasn't just another black kid involved in crime, it was a bright young person with aspirations to be an architect, who was set upon by racists with the sole intent to kill him.

How can you not place the Lawrence case and it's coverage without reference to race? That is mind blowing.

Sussex Nomad · Mar 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
The Lawrence murder is obviously a land mark case because the murderers were not bought to justice because of institutional racism, and corruption of some officers.

The media picked up on the story once they realised this wasn't just another black kid involved in crime, it was a bright young person with aspirations to be an architect, who was set upon by racists with the sole intent to kill him.

How can you not place the Lawrence case and it's coverage without reference to race? That is mind blowing.

I can, I am just saying that he has got far more publicity then two white kids being killed this last weekend when people try to put race to incidents, of which these stabbings have nothing to do with race. Yes SL was a race issue, I understand that, but someone posted if it were black kids being stabbed it would be chip paper basically, when in actual fact it never is.

Bold Seagull · Mar 4, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
I can, I am just saying that he has got far more publicity then two white kids being killed this last weekend when people try to put race to incidents, of which these stabbings have nothing to do with race. Yes SL was a race issue, I understand that, but someone posted if it were black kids being stabbed it would be chip paper basically, when in actual fact it never is.

That is still wrong. I've given you 2 examples of 2 black kids being murdered, and the press didn't bat an eyelid. It might not be so much now, but it definitely was back then. The press had no interest in the Lawrence case until years later when the case was revealed as being racially motivated. Basically the SL coverage of the 90s bares no real reference to the coverage now. You used it as an comparative example but it just isn't.

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