[Albion] Great read, where do you stand on the subject?

AmexRuislip · Feb 27, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
It's an oversimplistic article. Izquierdo has been injured most of the season. Andone arrived injured and Murray was in decent form when he finally recovered. Then, as Murray declined, he managed to get himself banned for three games. Propper has been more or less ever present when fit, Montoya and Bruno have traded the shirt and are really horses for different courses given their respective strengths and weaknesses. Burn and Balogun were bought as back up. On their day Duffy and Dunk are one of the best pairings in the league and this was certainly the case pre-Christmas. Ditto the two keepers were always back up. A new signing at the start of last season (Gross) is keeping out a new signing from the start of this season (Bissouma) though I personally hope that's about to change.

There are areas where we have bought poorly. Locadia is just not good enough. Ali J has shown very little (though, again, there was an injury issue). These two have been a massive dissapointment so far. The constant selection of Bong in place of Bernardo is absolutely baffling. It makes zero sense to me.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that injuries and suspensions seem to be ending at about the same time (and the new one we picked up is Gross, out of form and hopefully replaced by Bissouma). We could go out on Saturday with genuine pace and excitement. Bissouma in the middle. Bernardo at LB. A front three of Andone, Knockaert and izquierdo (though, of course, March will predictably play instead). If we fail to use these sorts of players when the old guard are failing then the writer will have a point. But, right now, not only does the article ignore injuries, it ignores the fact that many of these signings were only ever signed as back up.

I think that the 'spotlight' that wasn't on us a while ago, is now well and truly shining a massive beam in Albions direction.
As the results are not going our way, every two bit pundit / expert thinks they can spout their so called knowledge of what CH shold be doing.
All I know is that, I'm keeping faith in CH and the rest of the band in keeping us in the PL.
I'm damn sure TB also knows he doing, and thats good enough for me.

BLOCK F · Feb 27, 2019

Yes, the article is simplistic, as many of this type are.
Nevertheless, for me , it does hold some weight and I am disappointed that not one of our newest recruits can yet be held up as a nailed on certainty to command a first team place.
Yep, I understand the purpose of strengthening the squad, but without some tangible improvement in results, and whether or not it is justified, a degree of dissatisfaction and grumpiness amongst us supporters is inevitable; after all, this is football!
Anyway, we are not yet down and have a good chance of survival. I am fairly philosophical about this and if we don't stay up, then we won't have deserved to. Not sure Mr .Bloom would be so sanguine!
I do have serious reservations about C.H. being the man to realise the full potential of the club and I wonder what is going through Mr.Ashworth's head at the moment!

Baldseagull · Feb 27, 2019

Miami Seagull said:
In general agreement with the article. If Bissouma and Bernardo cant get a starting position on a frequent basis then I doubt many of the others who have been injured would have one either.

You have highlighted 2 younger players, perhaps the fact they are both relatively inexperienced players and new to English Football is a reason they have not both been thrown in fully.

Jimmehh · Feb 27, 2019

8049 said:
Isn't improving the squad and having players as back up the same thing? The general level of our squad has improved. Our bench on the first game last season after the summer transfer window SLAMMED shut - against West Brom - was::

Maenpaa
Hunemeier
Rosenior
Skalak
Izquierdo
Murphy
Murray (who had a knock in pre-season iirc)

The starting line up included Tomer Hemed. From those players, one is retired, three are playing in the Championship (although Skalak generally isn't in the squad), one is in Scottish Premiership (so Championship equivalent) and another is playing in 2nd tier of German football and the other two are first choice when fit.

In comparison, our bench for the last league game we won - Palace - was:
Steele
Bong
Balogun
Kayal
Knockaert
Locadia
Andone

In terms of quality, despite what some might think of Bong, Steele and, even possibly, Kayal, for me that is a much stronger bench and, therefore, we have a stronger squad. If we don't get relegated, my guess is that we will look to improve the quality of some of our first team players and ratchet up the overall quality that way.

Did we not beat Everton in December?

jamie the seagull · Feb 27, 2019

Turkey said:
I think it is absolutely right that when a new player joins the club they have to earn their spot. It doesn't matter if they cost £17m. The player with the shirt holds it until such time as they are struggling for form, need a rest, pick up an injury or suspension.
On top of that, we have had a very well coached team. A new player doesn't just step into that and know what is expected of them. They build it up over time. Throwing in everyone new and you end up with strangers on the pitch unsure of what they're supposed to be doing. We've also seen plenty of players of the years take time to adapt to either the club or the country. It's a normal process.

It has taken too long to drop players that are not performing.
Yet when the new players make one mistake they are out...and back comes the old guard.

Whilst they look well trained when you watch them train in the open day/pre-match that is not transferred onto the pitch.
Midfield looked frightened to get the ball and give the defenders little or no options.

8049 · Feb 27, 2019

Jimmehh said:
Did we not beat Everton in December?

Yep, you're right. Bench that day was:
Steele
Bong
Balogun
Gyokeres
Bissouma
Murray

Bearing in mind Izquierdo was injured and Jahanbaksh at the Asian Games, I think the point still stands.

Weststander · Feb 27, 2019

Greg Bobkin said:
So, if the club survives in the Premier League (a high chance that will be the case), will the squad be hailed a success, given that many senior figures have come out and said that was the main aim?

Clearly, the club isn't in the position it wants to be in, but I would argue it is in the position is partly EXPECTED to be in. I get what the article is saying, but like GB says, it's all too simplistic. Not long ago – when the Albion were mid-table – there was a thread on here saying how the new arrivals had really helped the team and you can probably find a thread on each of them saying how great they are. Even Locadia. Then there is the 'takes time to settle' argument, which is certainly true to an extent with some players and probably why CH manages them the way he does.

I'm not saying the article is BS, but the recent slide down the table helps make it almost write itself. Partial clickbait.

Good post.

I want to club to finish as high as anyone else, but the lofty position with NSC dreaming of Europa League was false. Wolves and West Ham had outplayed us really, but couldn’t breach our dogged defence, luck was going to even itself out, squad insufficiencies were going to come to the fore at some stage.

Someone recently mentioned on NSC, about wage costs. With Hudd, Newcastle, Burnley and Cardiff, we’re in the bottom 5 for PL wages, which is a good barometer of squad quality and enusing league position. That’s where we stand as a PL club, we’re in our rightful place. Just now.

Hoping for serious investment this summer to make 2019/20 more successful on the pitch.

Publius Ovidius · Feb 27, 2019

Springal said:
Confused, is Winstanley no good any more then ?

Didn't he marry a Nolan?

the right footed denilson · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Hoping for serious investment this summer to make 2019/20 more successful on the pitch.

And sales I wonder? I wonder who we'd ship out to get quality in?

Machiavelli · Feb 27, 2019

Green Gull said:
https://www.football365.com/news/f365s-early-loser-brighton-and-their-poor-transfer-business

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Great read?!
It's largely bollocks. What I will concede is that I find it very strange given their performances that CH hasn't been finding a starting place for Bernardo and Bissouma. Who Bernardo should replace is just obvious and pre-injury he looked like a star player; who Bissouma should replace is less straight-forward, but he certainly looks the player in our squad that has the potential to go the furthest (alongside, perhaps, Bernardo).

Machiavelli · Feb 27, 2019

Tom Hark said:
None of these are what is required to upgrade to an established PL club. Winstanley OUT!

I doubt you're being serious, but careful what you wish for.
As I indicated in an earlier post, the article is largely bollocks. What you seem to be neglecting to consider, and I'm sure El Pres will back this up, is that our signings have been ones that maintain a wage structure and limit, and that immediately limits the pool of what's available. Of all the club's employees, I'd argue that Winstanley is the one with the best track record.

Machiavelli · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Even Smug/Bmuff, lauded on NSC by so many, spent huge sums on later flops in their first few PL windows. Someone here documented that once.

Wolves with a different approach have quickly gathered a load of international players from world football, no doubt on big wages, but even they have lost so many PL matches.

Can only think of Citeh, Liverpool, Spuds and Watford who seem to have had a high success rate in transfers in the last 2 or 3 years.

A complex aspect.

The other club this 'writer'/'analyst' identified was Muff, who bought Brooks in the last window -- arguably the buy of that window -- and Ake a few before that. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Machiavelli · Feb 27, 2019

Weststander said:
Yes, attained by buying a load of famous players, and that’s the reason why. Agreed?

But even with their financial might and incredible squad, in this difficult division, they’re get turned over by Hudd and Brighton. Showing the huge challenge TB faces to keep us here, with a sustainable approach.

It also neglects the key fact that Wolves have teamed up with the agent to some of the biggest stars on the world stage. I'd be interested to hear from [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] just how this arrangement actually works, but I suspect that even his detective work won't be able to unravel what goes on.

Hamilton · Feb 27, 2019

I'm with @Guiness Boy on this one, although I was surprised to see most of our signings benched yesterday. In the end Chris was forced into the Bissouma change.

Dolph Ins · Feb 27, 2019

Read that article and thought that is just wrong. Couldn't put it in words but thankfully you lot have done it for me. Bench was weak last season this season it is mustard. Biss is still young and being broken in slowly. Issy came back from World Cup crocked and is now hopefully healed. Full back problems are less problematic. Ali J who knows and Locadia but I think Andone might end up a bargain. Where exactly is a club like us supposed to pick up a proven striker on our budget?

GT49er · Feb 27, 2019

Javeaseagull said:
Do you really think that the squad hasn't improved? OK mate, can't help you.

So many people still confusing improving the squad and improving the team - there is a world of difference. For our first season in the PL we improved the team; anyone think it wouldn't have gone tits up had we not signed Ryan, Propper and Gross? They were upgrades on what we had, and played pretty much every minute of every match. We were, however, lucky with injuries and suspensions - adequate cover was very thin on the ground, but thankfully we didn't need it.

For this season, we've spent money to improve the squad - we've now got adequate cover all over the pitch, but what we haven't done is improve the team. Whether that was the intention or not, I cannot say, but that is undoubtedly what has happened. Now (in the summer) we need to improve the team (not the squad; the squad's OK, sod improving the squad); that means buying maybe 2 or 3 players (not a small hopeful army like last summer) who are considerably better than what we have and who will instantly and permanently replace names which are currently pretty much automatic starters.

And yes, they will cost (but we have got £100M coming our way).

Not Andy Naylor · Feb 27, 2019

Winstanley was responsible for bringing in Duffy, Ryan, Bong, Skalak, Knockaert, Murray, Gross, Izquierdo and Propper, who were all upgrades on existing players.

The problem has been pushing on from there. Bernardo looks like an improvement on Bong, and Bissouma has fantastic potential if no defined role as yet but Locadia, Ali J, Montoya, Balogun and Burn have only expanded the squad rather than improved it. Andone has scored two valuable goals but also looked utterly anonymous in many matches. Jury still out on him. As has been said, we've improved the squad but not the first team.

B-right-on · Feb 27, 2019

GT49er said:
So many people still confusing improving the squad and improving the team - there is a world of difference. For our first season in the PL we improved the team; anyone think it wouldn't have gone tits up had we not signed Ryan, Propper and Gross? They were upgrades on what we had, and played pretty much every minute of every match. We were, however, lucky with injuries and suspensions - adequate cover was very thin on the ground, but thankfully we didn't need it.

For this season, we've spent money to improve the squad - we've now got adequate cover all over the pitch, but what we haven't done is improve the team. Whether that was the intention or not, I cannot say, but that is undoubtedly what has happened. Now (in the summer) we need to improve the team (not the squad; the squad's OK, sod improving the squad); that means buying maybe 2 or 3 players (not a small hopeful army like last summer) who are considerably better than what we have and who will instantly and permanently replace names which are currently pretty much automatic starters.

And yes, they will cost (but we have got £100M coming our way).

Exactly my thoughts. Well put. :thumbsup:

BLOCK F · Feb 27, 2019

GT49er said:
So many people still confusing improving the squad and improving the team - there is a world of difference. For our first season in the PL we improved the team; anyone think it wouldn't have gone tits up had we not signed Ryan, Propper and Gross? They were upgrades on what we had, and played pretty much every minute of every match. We were, however, lucky with injuries and suspensions - adequate cover was very thin on the ground, but thankfully we didn't need it.

For this season, we've spent money to improve the squad - we've now got adequate cover all over the pitch, but what we haven't done is improve the team. Whether that was the intention or not, I cannot say, but that is undoubtedly what has happened. Now (in the summer) we need to improve the team (not the squad; the squad's OK, sod improving the squad); that means buying maybe 2 or 3 players (not a small hopeful army like last summer) who are considerably better than what we have and who will instantly and permanently replace names which are currently pretty much automatic starters.

And yes, they will cost (but we have got £100M coming our way).

This is all fine and dandy, providing we don't get relegated!

Turkey · Feb 27, 2019

jamie the seagull said:
It has taken too long to drop players that are not performing.
Yet when the new players make one mistake they are out...and back comes the old guard.

Whilst they look well trained when you watch them train in the open day/pre-match that is not transferred onto the pitch.
Midfield looked frightened to get the ball and give the defenders little or no options.

Maybe it has. Without going through every match played this season to dissect errors though it's a difficult point to argue. I certainly recall Bernardo messing up at Watford in the first game and Bissouma making a few costly errors early on (Liverpool etc). I guess those who have more games under their belt at the club have earn't Hughton's trust and he feels he can trust them.

Disagree on not looking well coached on the pitch. It's been one of the biggest things we've been praised for during our team in the Prem. Yes, it's been lacking in this difficult run, which has even been acknowledged by the players. Our defensive shape and organisation has generally been very good. In terms of getting on the ball and options, I think that's a little harsh but regardless of it's merits wasn't really a part of how we play, which is sitting deep and organised and being good on the counter and at set pieces. I think there is an argument to say that in recent weeks one of the reason's we haven't been playing the way we are used too is because we're playing a bit more offensively, a bit higher up the pitch which has left us vulnerable at times (Leicester first goal, Woods goal from Dunks slip etc). We've been creating more chance than we were before, but giving up more too.

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[Albion] Great read, where do you stand on the subject?

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