[Albion] Assuming we survive, is CH the right man for 19/20?

I appreciate our situation.

Low budget.

Fairly limited squad.

Playing within our means.

Importance of Premiership survival.

BUT as someone who goes to pretty much every game I have to say that it is woefully dull. I'm not sure how long I can keep watching dull football. I'm finding it increasingly hard to drag myself to the other end of the country to watch us.

Its a no from me . Someone tell me the last game we actually played well!

Seagulls1984 said:

Its a no from me . Someone tell me the last game we actually played well!

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Palace at home maybe ?

the said:

I feel like most of the fans have too emotional of an attachment to CH because he got the team to the Premier League. As new Brighton fan I'm not expecting Brighton to be competing for a Champions league spot, but I really don't think CH's tactics and player selection are sustainable long term. It might be enough to survive relegation this year.

CH has done a great job getting the team where it is right now, but long term I don't see the team making it anywhere when there's a 7 mile gap between the midfield and the Striker and no Pressing what-so-ever.

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And I disagree. I think his tactics and management are absolutely perfect to keeping a club in the Prem. Highly unlikely to get top half. But also not going to do a Huddersfield. That's all we need right now. Brighton are building something big. Stadium. Facilities. International partnerships. A youth set up full of talent. A larger fan base. A reputation as a premier league club. A great recruitment team. Sponsorships. Income. Talented coaches top to bottom.

All of that will have us experiencing top level football for decades to come, under all types of managers, with all kinds of players, good seasons, bad seasons, amazing seasons. Why would anyone risk throwing it away in a battle to finish 10th in 2020. Why would that even matter, if set against the risk of falling out before we're ready?

I think those saying that we're just Brighton, punching above our weight, careful what we wish for, are also missing the point a little. There's a lot to wish for - which is precisely why we need CH at this time in our history.

Oh blimey. Fulham fans (and plenty of Palace, Newcastle, Burnley let alone Hudds fans), on their 3rd manager of the season, due to be relegated tonight in the first week of April!, having blown wages and £100m of fees on a team that secured only a handful of wins - would be reading (most) of the posts on here with pretty rueful smiles.

Seagulls1984 said:

Its a no from me . Someone tell me the last game we actually played well!

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If Palace away wasn't playing well which was one (prem) game ago then i doubt any other game this season meets your threshold.

chaileyjem said:

If Palace away wasn't playing well which was one (prem) game ago then i doubt any other game this season meets your threshold.

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True, and I really thought we'd turned some sort of corner at Selhurst. But then Millwall and Southampton ...

No, for me. Hughton's is clearly a very good man manager and an excellent coach but he is too cautious tactically and is too inflexible for the Premier League. The way we play is a window into the soul of the man, solid, reliable, undemonstrative - the very opposite of mercurial.

It's unfortunate but this means that in the Premier League he cannot escape his own shadow, constantly looking over his shoulder at the ghost of defeat rather than the horizon of victory.

It's relatively easy to determine the evidence for this, our shocking chance creation ratio both playing 411 and 433, our form since moving to 433 to try an improve that - because Hughton plays it as a 451, our abysmal away form in the Championship and Premier League and our really poor record against the teams around us this season.

In the Championship Hughton played a solid 442, a tried and trusted means of promotion for many sides before and will be for many sides in the future. Defensively well drilled and with width and attacking brio up front. Not difficult strategically, of course, but it takes an excellent coach and man manager to execute the plan. Hughton is, so he was successful.

Recently the two home games against Huddersfield and Burnley have really exposed his shortcomings as manager. In fact so depressing were they that I (correctly) swerved the Saints game as it was obvious what was coming.

Huddersfield, the worst team in the league and the opportunity to switch play quickly through their 'gegenpress' on the counter with Andone and Murray up front with Andone in the 'Baldock' role. Tried and trusted Championship (for that was the level of the opponent) tactics that will work, surely? No, the CH Solution? 451, 4, 5 ****ing one at home to Huddersfield, with Solly March on the right to makes matters worse when my three-legged-dog has a better right foot. 'Oh look Solly's got the ball on the right, go on Solly take him on, oh, he's turned inside and slowed the play down, again'. How many times that day did we see this? To add insult to injury this destroys any thinking advantage Murray has had with his movement and leaves him turned, devoid of pace and isolated against his marker. Murray needs quick balls that reward his intelligent movement.

Burnley - what a ****ing shambles. One would have to have been living on Mars, for 40 years since Leighton James was playing, with your head buried in red mud not to understand how Burnley play. And that you have to be Man City or Spurs to play 433 against it. When they have the ball it bypasses midfield utterly negating the effectiveness or otherwise of the 451 that CH deployed to control midfield. When we had the ball in a 433 moving forward Burnley's 442 is really tough to break though because the only way that happens is to play possession football through the thirds using full backs for width. The trouble is this meant that our narrow midfield then leaves the full-back exposed to two Burnley players, the winger and the full back, if our full back does not retain possession - witness Woods' first half goal.

Further it meant that Burnley's back line had an untroubled day, with only Murray to concern them.

We do not have the players for a true 433, Hughton knows this, which is why he sends them out 451. We couldn't retain possession against Millwall ffs, how bad does it need to be before his caution and intransigence is overcome and he reverts back to 442 or 4411? What's the worst that can happen? Because it sure as ****ing certain can't be any worse than the dross we've been watching since December.

Against Millwall away, Palace at home and Palace away, Hughton got lucky, really lucky. The 'Wall keeper threw it in his own net in the last minute, Duffy saw a red mist, got sent-off and Murray got injured. On came Balogun and Andone to score. CH would never ever have brought on Andone in a 441 if Murray had not been injured - but it was the perfect substitution because pace was the requirement. And a Knocky wonder goal at Selhurst Park.

Did the performances merit these outcomes? Only at Selhurst perhaps, and there he was playing for a draw, let's be honest.

Ironically, these tactics may serve us well on Saturday, but this proves the point. CH is not flexible enough, adventurous enough, mercurial enough to take the game to the opposition when we should be. In a way it's easier to set-up against City, it's not so easy to unpick the defensive walls of lower-table opponents.

Legend? Yes. Here next season? I hope not, sorry.

Be careful what we wish for? Certainly. Could we go down as a result of instability? Of course. Do I want to watch Hughtonball for another season? No.

Brovion said:

All of your post is sensible, but that paragraph sums it up. (I referred earlier to Sheff Wed's delusions of grandeur). Yes we could sack CH and get in someone better, someone to take us to the mythical 'next level'. After all he's not the best manager in world football, he's not coveted by bigger clubs, and he's certainly not some distillation of Clough, Shankly, Stein and Busby. So yeah, we could find someone who'll have our limited squad playing exciting attacking football which will blow away the lesser PL teams and give the big boys a run for their money.

But that's not where the smart money is. The smart money says if we get rid of a competent but not 100% top-drawer manager we'll replace him with someone not nearly so good, and before you know it we'll be just another Championship team who think they should be higher than they are. And of course we'll be more impatient with the new incumbent as this time it won't be all shiny and new.

As this thread has demonstrated some football fans can't always see the bigger picture.

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Of course they can't. But we're also within a world in which instant communication (or reaction might be better) is upon us, and too many football fans display two horrendous tendencies, and I'm not quite sure which one is worse. They are entitlement, and the belief that they know so much more about football than the next person (which, more often than not, includes the manager of their club).

I get the logic, I understand it. But I am seriously considering whether or not to cancel my season ticket to watch another season of this shite.

Because the over-arching thing, the bigger picture is why do we go? Why do we watch? We want passion, excitement and drive. We want to believe, and have our hopes dashed and to rise again gloriously. We don't go to pragmatically and cautiously line Paul Barber's pockets...that's not what I give up my weekends for, I'd rather be on the golf course frankly.

Scunner said:

I get the logic, I understand it. But I am seriously considering whether or not to cancel my season ticket to watch another season of this shite.

Because the over-arching thing, the bigger picture is why do we go? Why do we watch? We want passion, excitement and drive. We want to believe, and have our hopes dashed and to rise again gloriously. We don't go to pragmatically and cautiously line Paul Barber's pockets...that's not what I give up my weekends for, I'd rather be on the golf course frankly.

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At least the right weather is coming up for golf, so enjoy.

I will stick by my team, with Chris in charge thanks.

We're in the middle of a Cup campaign, we've got a good league position but needs a win or two for survival and we think it's a good idea to question our manager, unbelievable

Scunner said:

I get the logic, I understand it. But I am seriously considering whether or not to cancel my season ticket to watch another season of this shite.

Because the over-arching thing, the bigger picture is why do we go? Why do we watch? We want passion, excitement and drive. We want to believe, and have our hopes dashed and to rise again gloriously. We don't go to pragmatically and cautiously line Paul Barber's pockets...that's not what I give up my weekends for, I'd rather be on the golf course frankly.

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Enjoy the golf...I'll go to Brighton ..I go with hope each time

Oh for goodness sake Stato, why do you have to be so flippin' sensible and reasonable? It makes all the bed-wetters look a right bunch of chumps...

Thankfully, we have a very analytical and sensible man in charge of this football club. Tony Bloom won't do anything stupid. He knows that his manager is a big part of the almost unparalleled period of success that the club is currently enjoying. Chris Hughton has found the chairman he deserves. Let's act like the fans he deserves, not the spoiled Premier League 606 callers that we spent the last couple of decades sneering at for their ungratefulness.[/QUOTE]

oneillco said:

Oh for goodness sake Stato, why do you have to be so flippin' sensible and reasonable? It makes all the bed-wetters look a right bunch of chumps...

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I don't think all of those who've expressed a negative opinion of CH can be classed as 'bedwetters' tbf. Some, yes. But others have been quite honest in saying that they don't care if we're doing what we need to do in order to survive in the Prem: they find the football 'boring' and have had enough of it. Obviously that's fair enough, everyone's allowed an opinion.

This is all SO familiar to what happened last time we were in the top division - and not just under Mike Bailey. By the winter of 79 discontent had set in and the crowds had plummeted as fans were no longer seeing the likes of Ward and Maybank dismantle 2nd-rate defences. The difference this time is that firstly people have bough STs and therefore pretty much have to attend, and also, currently, there are enough people waiting in the wings to take the place of those who fall by the wayside.

For clubs like ours there isn't a next level (unless the academy starts churning out Gareth Bales) , this is it. Hughton is doing a great job.

Yes he is.
Even though we were shite on Sat I still think he is doing a good job.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Mackenzie said:

For clubs like ours there isn't a next level (unless the academy starts churning out Gareth Bales) , this is it. Hughton is doing a great job.

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You could say that there's the Watford level, which we could easily aspire to. But of course, Stoke, West Brom and Aston Villa thought they were comfortably at that level too, Villa even higher than that...

Not Andy Naylor said:

You could say that there's the Watford level, which we could easily aspire to. But of course, Stoke, West Brom and Aston Villa thought they were comfortably at that level too, Villa even higher than that...

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Yes, Watford is what I've had in mind in this discussion, but replicating that is so difficult. They're punching above their weight in terms of expectations and squad expenditure, they play more exciting football. But they're far more exception than the rule.
I've also thought of other clubs of a similar-ish stature/recent history to us who play attacking football, and have come up with Fulham and Bournemouth -- and I'd say that their league position cancels each other out.

Brovion said:

I don't think all of those who've expressed a negative opinion of CH can be classed as 'bedwetters' tbf. Some, yes. But others have been quite honest in saying that they don't care if we're doing what we need to do in order to survive in the Prem: they find the football 'boring' and have had enough of it. Obviously that's fair enough, everyone's allowed an opinion.

This is all SO familiar to what happened last time we were in the top division - and not just under Mike Bailey. By the winter of 79 discontent had set in and the crowds had plummeted as fans were no longer seeing the likes of Ward and Maybank dismantle 2nd-rate defences. The difference this time is that firstly people have bough STs and therefore pretty much have to attend, and also, currently, there are enough people waiting in the wings to take the place of those who fall by the wayside.

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In the autumn of '79, we looked doomed and then signed Peter Suddaby from Blackpool; the ship steadied ,we won away at Forest and went from strength to strength playing some exciting football and Wardy certainly 'dismantled' a few established Division 1 defenders, leaving quite a number literally on their arse!