Kuipers Supporters Club
Well-known member
Nuclear Weapons means you can do whatever you want.
Oh and the power of money / trade & cheap labour ....
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[News] Hong Kong - Hoping For The Best But Expecting The Worst
- Thread starter Tom Hark Preston Park
- Start date
Nuclear Weapons means you can do whatever you want.
Oh and the power of money / trade & cheap labour ....
Indeed China is, but communism is from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. China has kept the dictatorship of their communist background, but they now have a capitalist economy.
I assume you're just joking there.
It's western consumers that want cheaply made shit from China. They want it, but they don't need it. It would benefit the west to have more production over here, instead of in China, so I don't see why the EU and US don't join forces and insist China reforms, or we'll stop trading with them.
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
We make it easy for Russia and China. If Spain can beat up protesters (infact, voters), and if we can invade and occupy Afghanistan and Iraq, we don't have any moral highground to stand on.
I honestly think Russia may have thought twice about any military action outside it's boarder - if - the principle of national sovereignty/act of aggression was still held as a standard. It isn't. So there is nothing we can say, and they know it.
Kuipers Supporters Club
Well-known member
US / UK Invasion of Iraq
Russia invading Ukraine
China in Hong Kong
India in Kashmir
Israel in the Middle East
Nuclear weapons means you can throw your weight around on the international stage and there is nothing militarily anyone can do to stop it without serious escalation.
Big companies like cheap Chinese Labour ...
sydney
tinky ****in winky
China is almost out of control mate ....nabbing islands and building bases throughout the pacific , huge speculation over the capabilities of the satellites they are putting into orbit......cyber espionage etc. etc. we can't tell them anything.
We haven't occupied Afganhistan or Iraq. We recognise both as sovereign countries, and we only go the to either support their governments of to fight terrorists. We're not settling there. We're not claiming that they're part of the UK, as Russia is with Crimea, and China is with Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet.
As above, we're not taking ownership of the land there.
These were my examples.
Well that makes no sesne. Kashmir has always been disputed between India and Pakistan, and Pakistan is a nuclear power too, so it goes against your argument that you don't mess with nuclear powers.
Israel is an unusual example. Israel were attacked by their neighbours. Israel's neighbours want to see Israel completely destroyed.
Christ I wasn't suggesting we go to war with China and Russia, I was suggesting we (the west) stop trading with them.
BN41Albion
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2017
- 6,401
I agree with that, but I mean in terms of the welfare state, the way the economy is run, etc. It's less communist in that respect nowadays than the UK. (No nhs, etc)
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Come on. We (the west, rather than specifically the UK) installed the Afghan (Karzai) government which then "invited" us over. Same with Iraq, we had to remove the government and install a new one, by force, before we were "invited" in.
Russia will tell you they went into Crimea to fight terrorists or similar. China have said terrorism is what is taking place in Hong-Kong right now.
No doubt there are differences between how the West has behaved vs how China and Russia behave, but those differences are too nuanced to make any difference in the final analysis. Even if we accept your assessment that we didn't invade and occupy two soveriegn countries (which I think is a stretch), that is not the perception internationally. It's not even the perception domestically for many people.
There is a difference between trying to affect what flavour the government is, and actually occupying the land and treating it as your own, and taking the natural resources as if they were yours. There is a difference between having an oil company that gets paid to extract oil, and simply taking the oil and selling it for yourself.
But Russia have stayed and rule it as their own.
Oh please. When did the people of Hong Kong kill thousands of innocent people in China? When did Hong Kong invade another country (like Kuwait)? When did Hong Kong try and build nuclear weapons (and while we were fooled and WMDs, they were trying)?
Yes it is. It's completely different.
Not that it matters. I'm sure the west could make China and Russia reform more.
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
Classic 'Agent provocateur' tactics by China in play here I reckon.
Very much agree with all of that. Especially why the "free world" doesn't do more.
1985 marked the beginning of Hong Kong's representative democracy with an election for the legislative council. 24 members were elected.
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,071
Nothing to do with us, those Chinese ought to get used to being, er, Chinese. There’s only going to be one winner and it ain’t gonna be leader of the student union!!
portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,071
Precisely. When you’re a 3 billion strong dictatorship armed to the teeth with money to burn you tend to get your own way, like we once did. And US and Russia still do to a lesser extent. I’d vouch many wanting us to do more don’t, at the same time, want to join or pay for our armed forces, hate being British, despise our colonial history, rather ironically, nor have a grasp on reality I.e. our domestic never mind foreign policy is in tatters, it’s the other side of the world and China owns most of our national infrastructure now having steadily bought up schools, hospitals, transport, utilities and even football clubs would you believe over the past 20 years. Nah, I think China can choose to ignore us on this one. We’re sort of a David without any pebbles and a dislocated shoulder. Goliath can do what he wants this century.
Indeed that is the worry, but it should have to be a full war. China has no right to Taiwan, whereas they do have some right to rule Hong Kong. IMO, the Taiwanese should just be resolute that China will never control Taiwan.
Give out visas? It should be up to Taiwan whom they give visas to, not China.
Yes, but when I went 30 years ago there weren't any Chinese tourists. They got a lot of money from Chinese tourists, and now that has somewhat dried up. That's life, move on.
There are many countries around the world that could easily be obliterated by their neighbour, without others coming to help. That doesn't mean it'll happen though. What has China got to gain from killing those they claim are their own citizens? It's not like they need the land, and there aren't any natural resources worth invading for. So how many missiles doesn't really matter. China's best option is to try and convince the citizens of Taiwan that it'll be good for them (with their usual BS media etc). I don't think a full scale war would be a good idea.
The only similarity is that no one else would want to go to war over it. China could simply roll their tanks into Hong Kong, there wouldn't be a war. That's not so easy with Taiwan.
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
The problem with Taiwan is nobody recognises it as an actual nation, not even Taiwan.
If they moved away from the position that they are the official Government of China and instead went down the path for independence they may receive more support from the likes of the US and Japan.
If they moved away from the position that they are the official Government of China and instead went down the path for independence they may receive more support from the likes of the US and Japan.
Hong Kong is not a democracy by any rational measure, no matter what window-dressing has been put in place. If it was, these protests would not be happening.
Tokyohands
Well-known member
Many many HK'ers actually did move over, so I don't think the government let them down as they gave all HK'ers the right to move after Tiananmen. That is why most of the Chinese takeaways and chippies owned by asians were/are Cantonese.