[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?

SollysLeftFoot · Aug 18, 2019

Dick Swiveller said:
You will be waiting a very long time if you want it clarified for every single decision in one document. The length of time they take to make a decision does not have a limit. But the officials will decide what constitutes a phase of play as to how far back they check. Therefore, it is subjective.

No one disputed it is subjective, so your concluding remark literally has no bearing on the conversation.

The point is, the time delay between a decision being made using and VAR and continuation of play aught to be clarified. Subjectivity is no clarification, because as repeatedly said; the referee decides phase of play. However, there is no mechanism in place to prevent excessive time delay between an incident and VAR usage.

It has been well documented how some referees like to be at the centre of attention, VAR usage could be used to provide a platform of said attention. As such is, why people have raised the question of timing of usage and an incident occurring.

VAR is meant to produce consistency in decision making, yet has an apparent problem with consistency in usage.

Wrong-Direction · Aug 18, 2019

It's not like we aren't going to celebrate when we score though so what's the problem?

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maglers · Aug 18, 2019

father_and_son said:
Here to stay, but the offside rule needs changing so that VAR stops making such a contraversial impact.
Change the offside rule and I would remain pro-VAR. The stupid, millimetre measurements are just a waste of time and effort. Bodies overlap... Onside.

But however you manage this, there will always be a point where a millimetre difference will either be offside or onside. The line has to be somewhere.

warmleyseagull · Aug 18, 2019

Easy 10 said:
Part of Burns fvcking LEG was offside.

So he was offside. End of. All the rest of your post is extraneous because all the effort Burn put in would have been unnecessary had lino flagged straightaway, which VAR shows he should have done. It would never have got as far as Trossard. Get over it.

And I'll ignore insults, it really isn't necessary.

vagabond · Aug 18, 2019

Pantani said:
But VAR is a mess, the offside calls are still subjective as the line is drawn from a camera angle not necessarily looking straight down the line.

This point here.

Why?

Why is the VAR graphic not showing the decision in context down the line? It’s driving me barmy how no one is questioning this.

Why is the VAR graphic at a weird angle? Anyone know?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Aug 18, 2019

Whitechapel said:
So fans who don’t live in the UK and don’t watch the Albion live shouldn’t post on here? People who can’t afford to go to The Amex aren’t allowed to post on here? Unless you go to games you aren’t allowed to post on here or support Brighton, right?

You’re normally a decent poster but f*ck me you’re acting like a cretin here

Come on. I was only teasing.

I understand people are upset about VAR. I have posted repeatedly that it will be OK after some tweaks. That's it.

I enjoy your posts.

MillerEP · Aug 18, 2019

All in all, fair is fair. If it's the right call it's the right call. We'll get used to it, eventually. I'm not opposed to a little more honesty in the game, it makes each point matter a bit more in my opinion.

Easy 10 · Aug 18, 2019

warmleyseagull said:
So he was offside. End of. All the rest of your post is extraneous because all the effort Burn put in would have been unnecessary had lino flagged straightaway, which VAR shows he should have done. It would never have got as far as Trossard. Get over it.

And I'll ignore insults, it really isn't necessary.

So flag it straight away and have done with it then.

Or do you prefer celebrating like a mug for 2 minutes, till they decided to bin it off.You actually PREFER that ?

amexer · Aug 18, 2019

This thread would not be here if linesman had put his flag up. No excuse not to have seen it. Surely none of us liked occasions when goals were allowed when yards offside. VAR does deal with these so must be good. The contention is reluctance of linesmen to flag and so many seem unhappy when goals ruled out because only for eg boot offside. If we dont have VAR we will continue to have poor offside decisions and if it stays surely offside is offside.
To me biggest cock up is penalty rules. Goals by Wolves and Man City ruled out because ball hit players arm were a joke. Apart from VAR deciding if foul was in area get back to leaving fouls and handballs to opinion of referee

Arthritic Toe · Aug 18, 2019

vagabond said:
This point here.

Why?

Why is the VAR graphic not showing the decision in context down the line? It’s driving me barmy how no one is questioning this.

Why is the VAR graphic at a weird angle? Anyone know?

Presumably, its based on a fixed camera somewhere near the goal line. The grid they impose on it is adjusted for the angle/parallax. There's no reason for that not being acurate.

warmleyseagull · Aug 18, 2019

Easy 10 said:
So flag it straight away and have done with it then.

Or do you prefer celebrating like a mug for 2 minutes, till they decided to bin it off.You actually PREFER that ?

Well, that's why VAR is there; because he didn't 'flag it and have done' and he should have done. As I said, offside is very difficult; it require linos to have one eye on the kicker as he has to spot exactly when ball is kicked, and one on the line to see if anyone strayed offside even by a tiny amount. It is physically impossible, whereas technology can check with more precision.

When VAR checks offside it is basically same principle as goal line technology; I don't seem to recall bombastic uproar when Gross's goal against Man U was given despite ball being over line by just 25mm, people accepted that. And yes, of course GLT is quicker than VAR (although not instant, we could have had a false celebration then) but I actually do prefer to wait until goals are checked. Celebrate, hold breath, celebrate again. What's wrong with that? Rugby fans and cricket fans seem to be able to do that; football fans will have to learn to do so also; VAR aint going away because NSC feels hard done by on 17 August.

The idea that we put up with incorrect decisions because supporters have celebrated prematurely is perverse IMO. And remember that when North Stand next goes crazy and chants VAR, VAR, VAR because oppo have had a goal wiped out. It works both ways.

Guinness Boy · Aug 18, 2019

warmleyseagull said:
So he was offside. End of. All the rest of your post is extraneous because all the effort Burn put in would have been unnecessary had lino flagged straightaway, which VAR shows he should have done. It would never have got as far as Trossard. Get over it.

And I'll ignore insults, it really isn't necessary.

You have the soul of a Bucks Fizz record being played in an elevator in McDonald’s

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dingodan · Aug 18, 2019

The solution to all this may be technology.

Who would have thought we would be able to have heat maps telling us every blade of grass covered by every player in a game? The distance covered down to the smallest measurements?

We will probably need to take the tech further, to detect offsides and give immediate notification to the ref. Maybe AI could even pick out a handball etc. This could end up being as effective as goal line technology, so the ref knows within seconds. I'm sure, in time, this could be achieved, and it might be the only way to achieve fairness without ruining the game.

The question is, should we invest in the development of that kind of technology and ditch VAR keeping things as they were until that kind of tech is feasible?

Maybe we should. It's really tough. I've been pro-VAR so far, but listening to Danny Murphy on MOTD2 I can't help but agree with him. I'd say I'm 50/50 on whether VAR is making the game better or worse. It's making it fairer (I guess) but it's making it less enjoyable too, and I don't feel qualified to say which of those two things is more important.

Maybe (hopefully) technology can be developed to sort this stuff out.

Stato · Aug 18, 2019

I've just seen the VAR still again on MOTD2 and noticed that the ball is blurred, meaning the still is not from the point of contact, but from just after the point of contact. This doesn't mean that Dan was onside, just that this search for perfection in refereeing decisions is a Quixotic nonsense.

Having said that, I think that my fear that the live experience was going to be ruined for the sake of settling petty television talking points will prove to be unfounded. Football crowds will adapt to the existence of the technology. Before the incident West Ham were only singing their bubbles song and our end was singing 'You've only got one song', then they were chanting 'V-A-R, V-AR' and our lot responded 'Two songs, You've only got two songs.' Whatever madness is forced upon this country's live football crowds will only become fodder for the tribalism, wit and craziness that make the experience utterly unique. Its all grist for the mill. We can argue that it doesn't matter whether decisions are perfect, but in truth, the whole business of watching football only matters because we've chosen to make it matter. For the live supporter, once we get used to the delay, VAR decisions will become exactly the same as singing 'You thought you had scored' to the opposing fans: awful when you're on the wrong end of it, but fantastic when you're not.

Lindfield by the Pond · Aug 18, 2019

At Watford, really celebrated when we scored first, giving it all etc. Then it came up that VAR was checking. Second goal didn’t celebrate because of the first, as was not sure whether it was legit. Assumed it was when they kicked off. Third goal, same again. Was it good or not? Not sure until ref allowed kick off again. Gave a little “yes” when they kicked off. Really took a lot away from the game.

Same Saturday. Had switched back to normal mode and celebrated the first goal.....mistake. Should have waited for VAR. Did wait for Var on their goal. Again was waiting, and wasn’t sure it was valid and whether to be pissed off, until we kicked off. Then I was pissed off.
Then we scored our equaliser. Sat awaiting the var again......goal or non goal? They kicked off, so I assumed we scored?

Var has killed the last 2 games for me.

Lindfield by the Pond · Aug 19, 2019

Reckon the next goal celebration from the players should be to just sit down as a team and await the VAR decision. If all players did this, VAR would be modified or removed. A simple sensible let’s just wait for the var, would take the saleable tv part away from the tele. A players sit down protest....

Easy 10 · Aug 19, 2019

warmleyseagull said:
Well, that's why VAR is there; because he didn't 'flag it and have done' and he should have done. As I said, offside is very difficult; it require linos to have one eye on the kicker as he has to spot exactly when ball is kicked, and one on the line to see if anyone strayed offside even by a tiny amount. It is physically impossible, whereas technology can check with more precision.

When VAR checks offside it is basically same principle as goal line technology; I don't seem to recall bombastic uproar when Gross's goal against Man U was given despite ball being over line by just 25mm, people accepted that. And yes, of course GLT is quicker than VAR (although not instant, we could have had a false celebration then) but I actually do prefer to wait until goals are checked. Celebrate, hold breath, celebrate again. What's wrong with that? Rugby fans and cricket fans seem to be able to do that; football fans will have to learn to do so also; VAR aint going away because NSC feels hard done by on 17 August.

The idea that we put up with incorrect decisions because supporters have celebrated prematurely is perverse IMO. And remember that when North Stand next goes crazy and chants VAR, VAR, VAR because oppo have had a goal wiped out. It works both ways.

If you're actually ok with that, then we are never going to agree. It is the utter anathema of what going to a live football match means for me. If you want background nerds drawing lines to decide goals by millimetres, and putting goals on hold, then hey. Welcome to your VAR.

I think its shit.

Megazone · Aug 19, 2019

Does anyone know how I can get myself a few extra votes without having to open anymore accounts which is driving me mad?

Tokyohands · Aug 19, 2019

I think it will be good in some respects but right now it is way too prominent and has almost become the centre piece of the game, which just isn't right. The thing I really liked about football over other sports was it's fluidity, now that is being taken away.

BadFish · Aug 19, 2019

Sussex Nomad said:
Much like Remain/Brexit I think us VAR haters aren't allowed a comment. I'm with you 100%.

How on earth can you suggest that you don't get to comment when this thread is full of your comments? Not to mention the other threads full of 'VAR haters'.

I would suggest that you would feel less censored or shut down if you could express your opinion without insulting those who disagree with you.

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