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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


D

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,576
Sittingbourne, Kent
WATFORD zero said:
After 3 years of watching various Leave voters going round in circles getting increasingly angry that they haven't got Brexit, I will try to help and explain in simple terms what you need to do in order to get your Brexit. It really isn't that hard.

The referendum was won by a small majority.

The Government which are trying to implement Brexit also have a small majority.

There are two feasible options for Brexit,
1.'No deal' and a Border in NI,
2 Customs Union.
(Note: I said feasible, there are huge financial, infrastructure, lead times, economic and political issues associated with the first option, so we will stick with feasible).

There are three 'groups' of leavers
1 'No Deal',
2 A deal with a Customs Union, (you can call it 'backstop' if you prefer)
3 'Don't care/understand'

These three groups need to agree which Brexit they want in order to maintain the small majorities from the referendum and in parliament. If you keep on voting against one another, you will not maintain any majority you had and you will not get Brexit.

The EU, Remainers, Squealing Pigs © [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] , Undemocratic Loons © [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] , could not stop Brexit if you could simply agree what it is you want. The only people stopping Brexit are yourselves :shrug:

Hope this helps

Carry on
Click to expand...

The thing is, I fully believe that if the poll was put to the public, with exactly the same question as posed previously, you would still get exactly the same result, or possibly even an increased majority to Leave, that's why Remainers who desire a second referendum want to make it so complicated and with so many options that the Leave vote would become watered down.

Maybe any second referendum, if there were one, should remove Remain as an option, and just spell out the options for Leave.
 




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,534
West is BEST
darkwolf666 said:
That’s a massive leap of faith, British Steel has been going to the wall for years - you’ll be blaming Brexit for Debenhams, HMV, Select, Toys ‘R Us and many other failures.

British Steel hasn’t been able to compete with cheap imports from outside Europe, so staying in Europe wouldn’t make a scrap (metal) of difference!

There is a very good article in the FT*. titled "The long, slow decline of the British Steel industry", if you care to search for it. It may enlighten you, unless you just wish to carry on with cheap point scoring...

*can't seem to add link, without it taking you to the subscription page for the FT...
Click to expand...

Brexit had a direct impact on international orders. It has killed it off.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,838
Deepest, darkest Sussex


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,838
Deepest, darkest Sussex
darkwolf666 said:
That’s a massive leap of faith, British Steel has been going to the wall for years - you’ll be blaming Brexit for Debenhams, HMV, Select, Toys ‘R Us and many other failures.

British Steel hasn’t been able to compete with cheap imports from outside Europe, so staying in Europe wouldn’t make a scrap (metal) of difference!

There is a very good article in the FT*. titled "The long, slow decline of the British Steel industry", if you care to search for it. It may enlighten you, unless you just wish to carry on with cheap point scoring...

*can't seem to add link, without it taking you to the subscription page for the FT...
Click to expand...

While I largely agree with this, Brexit is still responsible for dealing the decisive blow. Someone can have terminal cancer to go with an underlying heart defect, but if they get smacked round the head with a baseball bat that's still going to be deemed the thing which hastened the demise. And rightly so.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,838
Deepest, darkest Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
After 3 years of watching various Leave voters going round in circles getting increasingly angry that they haven't got Brexit, I will try to help and explain in simple terms what you need to do in order to get your Brexit. It really isn't that complicated.

The referendum was won by a small majority.

The Government which are trying to implement Brexit also have a small majority.

There are two feasible options for Brexit,
1.'No deal' and a Border in NI,
2 A deal with a Customs Union, (you can call it 'backstop' if you prefer).
(Note: I said feasible, there are huge financial, infrastructure, lead times, economic and political issues associated with the first option, so we will stick with feasible).

There are three 'groups' of leavers
1 'No Deal',
2 'Customs Union'
3 'Don't care/understand'

These three groups need to agree which Brexit they want in order to maintain the small majorities from the referendum and in parliament. If you keep on voting against one another, you will not maintain any majority you had and you will not get Brexit.

The EU, Remainers, Squealing Pigs © [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] , Undemocratic Loons © [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] , could not stop Brexit if you could simply agree what it is you want. The only people stopping Brexit are yourselves :shrug:

Hope this helps

Carry on
Click to expand...

Excellent point. Brexit would have happened by now if Brexiters had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement in Parliament. We'd be out, and would have been for nearly 2 months now. Although Remain / Soft Brexit are just as bad (the EFTA lot refuse to vote for a 2nd referendum and vice versa, for instance).

Eventually one of the two groups (Leave or Remain / Soft Brexit) is going to get their act together, either to decide what Brexit they want or to work out a means of ensuring we don't Brexit at all. Whichever one does it first will win. Ultimately I still believe the end state will end up being something of the EFTA flavour as I can see some Brexiters buying into this on a "just get it done" basis, but who knows.
 


D

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,576
Sittingbourne, Kent
A1X said:
While I largely agree with this, Brexit is still responsible for dealing the decisive blow. Someone can have terminal cancer to go with an underlying heart defect, but if they get smacked round the head with a baseball bat that's still going to be deemed the thing which hastened the demise. And rightly so.
Click to expand...

Nice analogy, but doesn't change the fact British Steel was failing, and was probably hampered by European rules that prevented the government providing help (IF they had wanted to).
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,534
West is BEST
As usual, Brexiteers have their version, everyone else has the truth. Not that the truth counts for much in post referendumb England.
 




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,534
West is BEST
darkwolf666 said:
Nice analogy, but doesn't change the fact British Steel was failing, and was probably hampered by European rules that prevented the government providing help (IF they had wanted to).
Click to expand...

“Probably” or definitely? Genuine question. How did the EU hamper our government from providing help?
 




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,534
West is BEST
Is it PotG? said:
Thank goodness we have a beacon of knowledge such as yourself to educate and guide us.
Click to expand...


You cannot he educated as you don’t recognise that you have gaps in your knowledge. You won’t be guided as you refuse to believe you are lost, even as you hazard into the quicksand.
 




Is it PotG?

Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
23,367
Sussex by the Sea
The Clamp said:
You cannot he educated as you don’t recognise that you have gaps in your knowledge. You won’t be guided as you refuse to believe you are lost, even as you hazard into the quicksand.
Click to expand...
ts-eliot-quote-where-is-wisdom-we-have-lost-in-knowledge-where-is-the.jpg
 










L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,378
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

Interesting. Responses to the failing British Steel Company are predictable and we have seen it before with other prominent companies. The reasons for the failure are more complex.

As a Remainer, I am anticipating bad news about services and industries in this country because of Brexit; Leavers assert that, whatever it is that is going under has been on a downward trajectory for some time i.e. Brexit isn't the reason.

It turns out that it isn't what others tell us about these matters, it's what we tell ourselves that counts. Who knew?
 
Last edited:


C

CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
44,784
Andrea Jenkyns flailing around sums things up nicely for me

[tweet]1130802454042427392[/tweet]

Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,838
Deepest, darkest Sussex
CHAPPERS said:
Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.
Click to expand...

Hesseltine got kicked out for this. I assume the same rules apply here?
 




The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,534
West is BEST
CHAPPERS said:
Andrea Jenkyns flailing around sums things up nicely for me

[tweet]1130802454042427392[/tweet]

Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.
Click to expand...

Christ.
 


M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
The Clamp said:
As usual, Brexiteers have their version, everyone else has the truth. Not that the truth counts for much in post referendumb England.
Click to expand...


You sound seriously depressed.
How the hell are you going to cope when the unthinkable happens ( no, not Brexit ) and the EU starts to disintegrate. If you think Brexit is disastrous wait til you see this fallout!
Still, just to cheer you up, there will be a Franco-German alliance to try and join. Only trouble is, there will still be plenty of thicko's left who will want no part of it
 


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