[Politics] Brexit

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jan 28, 2019

Where's Jeremy Corbyn at this time? That's right, nowhere to be seen. Keeping his head down and generally being unfit to govern. I'm personally naturally Labour-leaning, but have NO idea what this guy stands for or what he believes in. Just seems to be blown around by focus groups and sound bites. How did Labour ever come to this? Shameful dereliction of leadership.

A1X · Jan 28, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
It strikes me as a bit of a vote-loser, but then again who needs future elections ?

"It has been agreed with the cabinet that an election at this time is not in the best interests of the British people owing to the likely turmoil a change in Government would bring, therefore we will not be holding an election until such time as we can guarantee a majority voting with us."

Is it PotG? · Jan 28, 2019

Plooks said:
It would have been dismissed as project fear.

When it happens you can point with a smug grin and say 'I told you so'.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 28, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
Stands to reason. He may be a brilliant lyricist and fantastically charismatic front-man, but let's face it, he's been a complete cock for at least ten years.

I'll agree with your last comment but the other bits ? Really ? The Smiths created 'music' to slash your wrists to.

ManOfSussex · Jan 28, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Maybe I'm missing something here and being whooshed but he supports leave

Wasn't aimed at you or whooshing and I'd forgotten he backed Brexit. (He always was a very tortured soul though.)

I just find it rather bemusing, among other things, thinking back that I became a Smiths fan through my older brother blasting their records through my bedroom wall growing up in the 80's and in 2 months time 'Panic' by them is going to be a reality. I had always wondered what could cause panic in Carlisle, Dublin, Dundee and Humberside at the same time, to the point I thought it an impossibility, but Brexit means Brexit and Morrissey was obviously a visionary.

(I can't think of any Discos to burn down though, as most of those I'd want to from back in the day, have already closed.)

Is it PotG? · Jan 28, 2019

Plooks said:
It won't happen. Leavers will be gathered around empty shelves discussing how tasty the fruit is. If you just believed it will be there and taste so much better than the eu versions.

I DO hope you've stocked up :thumbsup:

Mtoto · Jan 28, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
I feel that once the result was in, the Tories ballsed it up by not having a Brexit Bod in charge of negotiations with that lot.

There's a border between northern Ireland & the Republic which needs to be kept open to honour the Good Friday Agreement. How does having a Brexit Bod in charge change that?

The UK's GDP in 2018 - while we are still enjoying the considerable benefits of the single market - is estimated at $2.8tn. The EU as a whole is about $19.5tn. Having a Brexit Bod in charge doesn't change that either.

David Davis was the first Brexit secretary incidentally, and you can hardly write him off as a closet Remainer. There's still a little time left for his confident prediction about the German car manufacturers riding to the rescue to come to pass, though they do seem to be leaving it rather late.

An alternative explanation for the chaos is that they were - and still are - trying to negotiate the unnegotiatable.

hans kraay fan club · Jan 28, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
I'll agree with your last comment but the other bits ? Really ? The Smiths created 'music' to slash your wrists to.

That's another unwinnable argument, for another thread. Just for the record though, as with all things Brexit, you are wrong.

Stat Brother · Jan 28, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Where's Jeremy Corbyn at this time? That's right, nowhere to be seen. Keeping his head down and generally being unfit to govern. I'm personally naturally Labour-leaning, but have NO idea what this guy stands for or what he believes in. Just seems to be blown around by focus groups and sound bites. How did Labour ever come to this? Shameful dereliction of leadership.

The political equivalent of Ronnie Rosenthal.
From my adult lifetime, I can't think of a single opposition leader who wouldn't have been able to turn the entire country their colour, in the current political climate.

He's a very special man indeed.

hans kraay fan club · Jan 28, 2019

Mtoto said:
There's a border between northern Ireland & the Republic which needs to be kept open to honour the Good Friday Agreement. How does having a Brexit Bod in charge change that?

The UK's GDP in 2018 - while we are still enjoying the considerable benefits of the single market - is estimated at $2.8tn. The EU as a whole is about $19.5tn. Having a Brexit Bod in charge doesn't change that either.

David Davis was the first Brexit secretary incidentally, and you can hardly write him off as a closet Remainer. There's still a little time left for his confident prediction about the German car manufacturers riding to the rescue to come to pass, though they do seem to be leaving it rather late.

An alternative explanation for the chaos is that they were - and still are - trying to negotiate the unnegotiatable.

Well, yes. You know all that, I know all that. Every ****er deep down, knows all that, but good luck getting any Leave supporter to admit that any of this isn't SOMEBODY ELSE'S fault.

Is it PotG? · Jan 28, 2019

Mtoto said:
There's a border between northern Ireland & the Republic which needs to be kept open to honour the Good Friday Agreement. How does having a Brexit Bod in charge change that?

The UK's GDP in 2018 - while we are still enjoying the considerable benefits of the single market - is estimated at $2.8tn. The EU as a whole is about $19.5tn. Having a Brexit Bod in charge doesn't change that either.

David Davis was the first Brexit secretary incidentally, and you can hardly write him off as a closet Remainer. There's still a little time left for his confident prediction about the German car manufacturers riding to the rescue to come to pass, though they do seem to be leaving it rather late.

An alternative explanation for the chaos is that they were - and still are - trying to negotiate the unnegotiatable.

The last line does both interest and to some degree, scare me. To be part of something where the exit is 'unnegotiable' does not bode well in a free, democratic and changing society.

Bold Seagull · Jan 28, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Where's Jeremy Corbyn at this time? That's right, nowhere to be seen. Keeping his head down and generally being unfit to govern. I'm personally naturally Labour-leaning, but have NO idea what this guy stands for or what he believes in. Just seems to be blown around by focus groups and sound bites. How did Labour ever come to this? Shameful dereliction of leadership.

I think their manifesto was as clear as it could be with regard to what they stand for. Regardless of whether you think it was economically viable, or cost tested correctly, it was still a very clear set of political aims on which Corbyn has remained consistent with since.

Not sure he's been blown around by focus groups or sound bites at all, in fact one frustration is that he has remained steadfast in his political goals. While the media machine behind the right and Brexit for that matter can roll on unabated, I would say it is a dereliction of our press and fair coverage that causes your questions, not Corbyn himself.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 28, 2019

A1X said:
The more you think about, the more it seems incredible that hardly anyone made more of the calling up of army reservists a few weeks ago, passed almost without comment.

Probably because anyone with any common sense will see it for what it is - a symbolic political statement. Firstly it was only 3,500 troops and secondly they weren't called up for riot control. They were called up to assist with any logistical issues. France deployed over 80,000 troops and police the other weekend for the riots - 3,500 is pointless to control the riots some remainers are predicting ..... but then we know those riots aren't really going to take place don't we ?

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jan 28, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
I think their manifesto was as clear as it could be with regard to what they stand for. Regardless of whether you think it was economically viable, or cost tested correctly, it was still a very clear set of political aims on which Corbyn has remained consistent with since.

Not sure he's been blown around by focus groups or sound bites at all, in fact one frustration is that he has remained steadfast in his political goals. While the media machine behind the right and Brexit for that matter can roll on unabated, I would say it is a dereliction of our press and fair coverage that causes your questions, not Corbyn himself.

To sum up: you have absolutely no idea where JC stands on Brexit

Not a criticism of your post BTW. JC clearly has no idea either.

ManOfSussex · Jan 28, 2019

A1X said:
A lot of talk that this will involve a 9pm curfew in most major cities. So probably advisable not to stay on too long after the Southampton game the day we leave.

The more you think about, the more it seems incredible that hardly anyone made more of the calling up of army reservists a few weeks ago, passed almost without comment.

The game wouldn't go ahead due to police resources being needed elsewhere. There were games postponed in 2011 during the riots for example.

A1X · Jan 28, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
The last line does both interest and to some degree, scare me. To be part of something where the exit is 'unnegotiable' does not bode well in a free, democratic and changing society.

Leaving is not un-negotiable. But what the Brexiters want is, and has been from the very start. May's red lines are what has what sunk this whole shebang, and those were being cheered to the rafters by the very Brexiters we're now being told should have been in charge. Had the UK opted for a Norway / Switzerland type arrangement there would still have been some pain but nothing like the turmoil we're about to see, and things would have levelled out much more quickly as a result. But we were then told that this was "not Brexit", even though there was (and remains) an argument that "out, but only just out" was without doubt the best reading of the result we saw.

As the UK may be about to find out, leaving the EU is actually a piece of piss. Leaving the EU without having a truly colossal amount of shit dumped on your head by the entire world isn't.

Simster · Jan 28, 2019

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
We ought to open a book on the odds for the various amendments being tabled for the Commons tomorrow...…………….I'm going for Yvette Cooper's.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46959545

Talking of books and odds, here's one that I didn't see advertised on the side of a bus:

https://t.co/3CP5tcfZXf

Bold Seagull · Jan 28, 2019

Tom Hark said:
To sum up: you have absolutely no idea where JC stands on Brexit

Not a criticism of your post BTW. JC clearly has no idea either.

Strangely, he's been clear on that since the election; honouring the referendum result, but a deal that keeps a customs union ensuring free trade and protection of jobs, and some form of single market integration. Again, when you say no idea, is it just that no one wants to hear it? :shrug:

Moshe Gariani · Jan 28, 2019

Stat Brother said:
The political equivalent of Ronnie Rosenthal.
From my adult lifetime, I can't think of a single opposition leader who wouldn't have been able to turn the entire country their colour, in the current political climate.

He's a very special man indeed.

The tone of your post suggests some straightforward policy choices that would unite the country behind Labour. Given that Brexit is currently the number one political issue, what exactly is it that Corbyn should be coming out in favour of to garner such universal support...?

Stat Brother · Jan 28, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
I think their manifesto was as clear as it could be with regard to what they stand for. Regardless of whether you think it was economically viable, or cost tested correctly, it was still a very clear set of political aims on which Corbyn has remained consistent with since.

Not sure he's been blown around by focus groups or sound bites at all, in fact one frustration is that he has remained steadfast in his political goals. While the media machine behind the right and Brexit for that matter can roll on unabated, I would say it is a dereliction of our press and fair coverage that causes your questions, not Corbyn himself.

Shirley if he had, has and will only have one message, by now everybody knows what it is?

My guess is that he also (secretly or not) also wants out of the EU as well, so is sitting on his hands while someone else is burning Rome.
To what ends I don't know, as I sure as hell won't be trusting him to pick up the pieces afterwards.

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[Politics] Brexit

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