[Albion] Bottle Top BAN!

Hungry Joe · Jan 9, 2019

As with a lot of safety-related matters, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I know this first hand as I am a safety professional in my day job. It's tempting to be cynical and latch this issue onto other recent initiatives that appear to be commercially driven primarily, but consider the bellow as a possible conversation and the ramifications if a serious injury was to occur at The Amex at some point in the future......

BHAFC Safety meeting

Safety Rep "Should we review the stance on allowing sealed bottles into the stands following recent incidents?"
PB / other mgmt Rep "What do you think the risk is?"
Safety Rep "Probably low in terms of likelihood still, although perhaps higher than in recent times, but if someone is hit by a bottle then the chances of serious injury are high"
PB / other mgmt Rep (showing off that they were paying attention in their Managing Safety Course) "So that makes the overall risk 'medium' then, meaning we should look at further potential control measures to reduce the risk?"
Safety Rep "Well done, take a sweety"
PB / other mgmt Rep "Ok, so what do you advise then?"
Safety Rep "Most effective control would be to ban bottle tops being taken in, standard control in many public venues"
PB / other mgmt Rep "Hmmm, bit worried the fans will accuse us of furthering Operation Cash Cow if we do this, let's wing it and hope for the best"

Knocky's Nose · Jan 9, 2019

driddles said:
We cannot bring in:

Weapons (obviously)

I bet Zahaha wouldn't dive half as much if he had 27,000 assault rifles pointed at him. :lolol:

Goldstone1976 · Jan 9, 2019

Knocky's Nose said:
I bet Zahaha wouldn't dive half as much if he had 27,000 assault rifles pointed at him.

Well, he probably would. Just the once though.

Hastings gull · Jan 9, 2019

Hungry Joe said:
As with a lot of safety-related matters, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I know this first hand as I am a safety professional in my day job. It's tempting to be cynical and latch this issue onto other recent initiatives that appear to be commercially driven primarily, but consider the bellow as a possible conversation and the ramifications if a serious injury was to occur at The Amex at some point in the future......

BHAFC Safety meeting

Safety Rep "Should we review the stance on allowing sealed bottles into the stands following recent incidents?"
PB / other mgmt Rep "What do you think the risk is?"
Safety Rep "Probably low in terms of likelihood still, although perhaps higher than in recent times, but if someone is hit by a bottle then the chances of serious injury are high"
PB / other mgmt Rep (showing off that they were paying attention in their Managing Safety Course) "So that makes the overall risk 'medium' then, meaning we should look at further potential control measures to reduce the risk?"
Safety Rep "Well done, take a sweety"
PB / other mgmt Rep "Ok, so what do you advise then?"
Safety Rep "Most effective control would be to ban bottle tops being taken in, standard control in many public venues"
PB / other mgmt Rep "Hmmm, bit worried the fans will accuse us of furthering Operation Cash Cow if we do this, let's wing it and hope for the best"

Yes, I am sure that you are right -and therefore it is better to be safe than sorry, even if these things do seem totally OTT. It is of course easy to criticise and say it is only bottle tops and infer some sort of financial agenda. I can't help feeling, however, that sometimes H&S gets rather too extreme with regard to appreciation of perceived risk, and this presumably would play a part in the reactions of some posters.

Winker · Jan 9, 2019

What if someone walks in wearing one of these:

Hungry Joe · Jan 9, 2019

Hastings gull said:
I can't help feeling, however, that sometimes H&S gets rather too extreme with regard to appreciation of perceived risk, and this presumably would play a part in the reactions of some posters.

That's a fair point, sometimes things do veer towards being overly risk-averse. Sometimes this is down to fear of litigation, sometimes justified and sometimes not. Generally though (but not exclusively) people who decide or advise on safety matters are not driven by commercial interests. In fact the opposite is often the case, as good health & safety costs money (in the short term at least, it tends to save money in the medium to long term once hidden costs of health and / or safety issues are factored in).

The whole 'Elf'n'Safety gone mad' thing though has been overplayed - interesting fact, the UK has LESS H&S legislation than it had 30 years ago, but if you read The Daily Mail et al you'd hardly think that. What legislation that remains in place has massively reduced illness, accidents and fatalities at work and in public places over the past 20 years or so in particular, so the ends justify the means imo.

Back to this particular issue, my personal view has in part been shaped by my own near miss previously mentioned. That did shake me up and make me realise just how dangerous a full bottle of drink can be when luzzed from on high, it was like a bullet going off when it hit the chair in front of me. However, I don't personally agree with the flask ban for the reason that I have never heard a single incident where a flask has been thrown, so to me there's no evidence of any threat. Bottles however do get thrown at football, gigs etc (bottles of piss being the favoured missile at the Reading Festival once upon a time). To win hearts and minds when it comes to the whipping boy of health & safety rules and controls have to be seen to be reasonable, and the flask one doesn't feel reasonable to me. How the rules / messages are communicated is also very important, and I'm not sure the club have done this in the best way this time with regards to the bottle top thing, which hasn't helped.

Knocky's Nose · Jan 9, 2019

Hastings gull said:
I can't help feeling, however, that sometimes H&S gets rather too extreme with regard to appreciation of perceived risk....

We've simply gone down the USA route of having to assume everyone is a total ****tard who has the power to sue you for lots of money if you haven't stated the obvious and removed all and every element of risk.

Health & Safety is a good thing, on the whole. Things like scaffolding, netting and harnesses when working on a tall building. Guards and two-press buttons for machinery. Electrical and Gas regulations. All good.

Putting 'Caution : This drink is hot' on a hot cup of coffee - and so on is an insult to intelligence, but these days necessary. Sadly.

Hungry Joe · Jan 9, 2019

Knocky's Nose said:
Health & Safety is a good thing, on the whole. Things like scaffolding, netting and harnesses when working on a tall building. Guards and two-press buttons for machinery. Electrical and Gas regulations. All good.

Putting 'Caution : This drink is hot' on a hot cup of coffee - and so on is an insult to intelligence, but these days necessary. Sadly.

Absolutely, and a good comparison to highlight the fact that the former controls you mention are based on legislation, whereas the latter is not, but is something that has been used to try and avoid litigation. It's this fact that gets lost too often in the debate, and it's not helped by some employers trying to hide unpopular decisions by using H&S as a blanket justification for what they're doing. It got so bad a few years back that the HSE actually set up a 'Myth Busters' panel to blow the myriad myths and falsehoods peddled by certain parts of the media that took hold and became the general public perception.

Captain Sensible · Jan 9, 2019

Say you buy a Fanta or bottle of Coke for your kids, and the dullards at the kiosk take the bottle top off of it, can you ask for a coffee cup with a lid to pour the drinks into so they don’t get spilled everywhere!?

nwgull · Jan 9, 2019

Captain Sensible said:
Say you buy a Fanta or bottle of Coke for your kids, and the dullards at the kiosk take the bottle top off of it, can you ask for a coffee cup with a lid to pour the drinks into so they don’t get spilled everywhere!?

People that work kiosks are dullards to you, are they?

jessiejames · Jan 9, 2019

Captain Sensible said:
Say you buy a Fanta or bottle of Coke for your kids, and the dullards at the kiosk take the bottle top off of it, can you ask for a coffee cup with a lid to pour the drinks into so they don’t get spilled everywhere!?

That's a good idea, I might buy some coffee cups with a lid, replace it with the contents of my bottle of drink and top it up with Brandy.

driddles · Jan 9, 2019

Bozza said:
Not sure you’re aware but over here we don’t all run around with guns which we often use to shoot each other.

Not sure you're aware, but we don't ALL do that either. Those precautions are in place because of perceived terrorist threats.

Frankie · Jan 10, 2019

Members of The Button Moon cast are said to be furious about this

Stat Brother · Jan 10, 2019

driddles said:
Not sure you're aware, but we don't ALL do that either. Those precautions are in place because of perceived terrorist threats.

From young white Americans.

Diablo · Jan 10, 2019

Will terrorists be seeing "Plastic Bottle top" as the new weapon of choice. Surely Pubs, Clubs, and even supermarkets and corner shops should be forced to remove bottle tops on sale of drinks bottles.

Mr Banana · Jan 10, 2019

At The Asian Cup you can't take in mobile phone batteries, plugs and basically anything except your undercrackers and teeth.

LamieRobertson · Jan 10, 2019

Mr Banana said:
At The Asian Cup you can't take in mobile phone batteries, plugs and basically anything except your undercrackers and teeth.

I’m giving it a miss this year

Lankyseagull · Jan 10, 2019

Captain Sensible said:
Say you buy a Fanta or bottle of Coke for your kids, and the dullards at the kiosk take the bottle top off of it, can you ask for a coffee cup with a lid to pour the drinks into so they don’t get spilled everywhere!?

It's a good idea, but I'm not sure that they have empty cups available. From what I've seen, the tea/coffee/hot chocolate/Bovril cups already have the key ingredients in & they just add the hot water.

I'm not sure that Fanta & Bovril would result in a pleasant drink!

samtheseagull · Jan 10, 2019

Alba Badger said:
This has got me rather pissed off I must say, 2x Alba Badger JR bring in water bottles and now we will be told they can’t take them in with bottle tops on? Totally f£%king stupid.

Does that mean the managers and payers can't have tops on their Bottles after the Arsenal Manager booted one into the crowd? What a joke.

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2019/january/supporters-reminded-on-prohibited-items/

Just hide the bottle tops down your pants until you are through the gates

carlzeiss · Jan 10, 2019

samtheseagull said:
Just hide the bottle tops down your pants until you are through the gates

That's the way to go . :thumbsup:

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