[Albion] Dan Ashworth and youth team policy

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 3, 2019

The curious case of Christian Walton maybe illustrates the need for Dan! Dan! (or somebody) to apply some deeper level of thinking on youth team development. Fine young keeper, 23 years of age now, and no nearer a first team start, or even a regular place on the bench, than on the day he signed for the club. What gives?

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 3, 2019

Weretheweststand said:
I think your idea is good but one negative could be that, for example, in a hypothetical situation in which Bissouma was 21 rather than 22, if Chris was 50:50 about whether to start him or Gross and leave one on the bench, he'd probably start Gross because if Bissouma was on the bench he'd fulfill the quota. I know it's a bit of an edge case but it would be a shame to prevent the players that are ready to start from playing. I guess you could include starting players as part of the quota?

Yes a fair point, though hopefully a manager would want to field his strongest line up....
I don’t know.

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BigGully · Apr 3, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
Quite a lot.

Younger players gain experience of preparation and involvement at a senior level, and when the moment is right gain 15-30 minutes.

It is about enabling younger players to be ready and not intimidated.

Given not so long ago we only had one sub, I can’t see how a team couldn’t survive on five with two youngsters.

Of course teams could use a GK as one, but that would still be a younger player benefiting.

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That would at least be an implemented 'policy' that might improve opportunity for young players, however I suspect that just a stand alone arbitrary figure of 'x' amount of U23's might soon turn into tokenism and hinder the managers choices, but I get your drift.

The conundrum remains if you investigate the paper-trails of our foreign players it is likely they were rewarded an opportunity where they took the place of a better player, perhaps through injury, suspension or a driven club policy where they promoted young player progression (easier in a less rarefied and less financially driven far off foreign league), they then thrived and continued to develop into a player that is then brought to England and inadvertently deprives young players here the same opportunity as they had.

Machiavelli · Apr 3, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
Stephens is a great player, I do think Sanders seems a similar player, and perhaps a future replacement. Who knows?

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That's too strong for me. He's been remarkable for us, but I really do think we should be targeting an upgrade or rival for him in the summer. It's his (lack of) athleticism that stands out for me, and lack of pace. This is not to deny his multiple positive attributes.

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 3, 2019

Machiavelli said:
That's too strong for me. He's been remarkable for us, but I really do think we should be targeting an upgrade or rival for him in the summer. It's his (lack of) athleticism that stands out for me, and lack of pace. This is not to deny his multiple positive attributes.

Perhaps, he was poor Saturday but they all were.
He sits, retains possession and is good from a decision making perspective, rarely forcing passes, which I really like.

We certainly miss him when he doesn’t play. I’m not sure how we’d improve on him without spending £30m, and there are more pressing areas for investment IMO.

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Machiavelli · Apr 3, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
Perhaps, he was poor Saturday but they all were.
He sits, retains possession and is good from a decision making perspective, rarely forcing passes, which I really like.

We certainly miss him when he doesn’t play. I’m not sure how we’d improve on him without spending £30m, and there are more pressing areas for investment IMO.

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Apart from up front which hopefully all view as blindingly obvious, where?

Marshy · Apr 3, 2019

Young players have to be given opportunity, would Lewis Dunk have broken through at age 18 if we had been a premier league side ?... I very much doubt it.

Top class coaching from a young age is vital and then a manager brave enough to put them in the side.

Common as Mook · Apr 3, 2019

Tom Hark said:
The curious case of Christian Walton maybe illustrates the need for Dan! Dan! (or somebody) to apply some deeper level of thinking on youth team development. Fine young keeper, 23 years of age now, and no nearer a first team start, or even a regular place on the bench, than on the day he signed for the club. What gives?

I think you answered your own question.
It takes a certain type of 'keeper to want to sit on the bench week in, week out. He clearly wants to playing, and as he's a fine young player, that's what we are allowing him to do until either

a) we sell Ryan and take the plunge with him
b) we sell him for a handsome fee to a Championship club

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 3, 2019

Common as Mook said:
I think you answered your own question.
It takes a certain type of 'keeper to want to sit on the bench week in, week out. He clearly wants to playing, and as he's a fine young player, that's what we are allowing him to do until either

a) we sell Ryan and take the plunge with him
b) we sell him for a handsome fee to a Championship club

Fully take your point. Just think that with the stakes in the modern game being ever higher, then the chances of a first team player coming through the youth team set-up become ever lower, such are the pressures on managers for instant results. There's very little leeway for easing a bright young prospect into the first team, other than the odd token place on the bench.

Common as Mook · Apr 3, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Fully take your point. Just think that with the stakes in the modern game being ever higher, then the chances of a first team player coming through the youth team set-up become ever lower, such are the pressures on managers for instant reslults.

Absolutely.

If you take two high profile examples - Kane & Rashford - both were played because of injury crises and then both showed what they were made of. No way would they have made it without that quirk of fate.

blue-shifted · Apr 3, 2019

No way would Rashford and Kane have made it?

Common as Mook said:
Absolutely.

If you take two high profile examples - Kane & Rashford - both were played because of injury crises and then both showed what they were made of. No way would they have made it without that quirk of fate.

Common as Mook · Apr 3, 2019

blue-shifted said:
No way would Rashford and Kane have made it?

Both were well down the pecking order before they were picked. I genuinely don't think they would have had a look in if injuries hadn't forced Van Gaal & Sherwood's hand.

rippleman · Apr 3, 2019

Common as Mook said:
I think you answered your own question.
It takes a certain type of 'keeper to want to sit on the bench week in, week out. He clearly wants to playing, and as he's a fine young player, that's what we are allowing him to do until either

a) we sell Ryan and take the plunge with him
b) we sell him for a handsome fee to a Championship club

c) we put him on the bench as backup to Ryan and he becomes our "cup keeper"

Just an idea!

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 3, 2019

Machiavelli said:
Apart from up front which hopefully all view as blindingly obvious, where?

I think cover/replacement for Gross and new RB to compete with Montoya, as I think Bruno may retire. If we are to improve we need to spend more on better quality (IMO) and fewer players. The 'calculated gambles' on some players perhaps will come to fruition, but aren't at the minute (again IMO).

Will Bong get another contract?
Are the wingers at the right level?

golddene · Apr 3, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Fully take your point. Just think that with the stakes in the modern game being ever higher, then the chances of a first team player coming through the youth team set-up become ever lower, such are the pressures on managers for instant results. There's very little leeway for easing a bright young prospect into the first team, other than the odd token place on the bench.

Tom, I believe it's the experience that Christian Walton is acquiring whilst playing, which is the main reason for his long loan experiences. If and when he returns to our squad it will be as a certain member of those squads.

GT49er · Apr 3, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
I think cover/replacement for Gross and new RB to compete with Montoya, as I think Bruno may retire. If we are to improve we need to spend more on better quality (IMO) and fewer players. The 'calculated gambles' on some players perhaps will come to fruition, but aren't at the minute (again IMO).

Montoya is fine as our RB; we do need cover - and we have it - Bruno and White between them. Massive allocation of majority of budget to CM.

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 3, 2019

GT49er said:
Montoya is fine as our RB; we do need cover - and we have it - Bruno and White between them. Massive allocation of majority of budget to CM.

White is not a RB and Bruno I think will finish at the end of the season.

macbeth · Apr 3, 2019

rippleman said:
c) we put him on the bench as backup to Ryan and he becomes our "cup keeper"

Just an idea!

Nope. As Common as Mook says:

Common as Mook said:
I think you answered your own question.
It takes a certain type of 'keeper to want to sit on the bench week in, week out. He clearly wants to playing, and as he's a fine young player, that's what we are allowing him to do until either

GT49er · Apr 3, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
White is not a RB and Bruno I think will finish at the end of the season.

He was at Newport, and still is (as well as a CB) according to his wiki entry.

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 3, 2019

GT49er said:
He was at Newport, and still is (as well as a CB) according to his wiki entry.

Thought he played CB at Newport as he marked Kane. Never seen him at RB for U23s

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