[Politics] Mark Field

Sheebo · Jun 21, 2019

Springal said:
It wasn't his party.

And actually your now saying he can act like that because someone is causing a scene - rather than because they think they're in immediate danger.

Yep - either/or. He wasn’t in the wrong - she was. And I don’t see an issue with how he reacted to her but can ubdwrstand others’ may say it was slightly heavy handed. Either way, it doesn’t deserve the media attention / snowball it’s received.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
Shouting across a speech is causing trouble! I have absolutely no knowledge of what the event was or what the protest was - which I think helps in this instance as others are letting their political angle cloud their view imo. She was trespassing and got escorted out with reasonable force - I really don’t see the issue. She will hopefully learn from her mistake that she is not above the law.

You and I disagree about reasonable force. If you saw a woman being treated like that at football, you would be up in arms about it.

Peaceful protest includes heckling a speech (it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer) and she was a climate change protestor.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
Yep - either/or. He wasn’t in the wrong - she was. And I don’t see an issue with how he reacted to her but can ubdwrstand others’ may say it was slightly heavy handed. Either way, it doesn’t deserve the media attention / snowball it’s received.

The Prime Minister disagrees and has suspended him.

The Clamp · Jun 21, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
It's a grey area but personally I believe holding someone by the back of the neck is reasonable - it allows you to control the person - by the front of the neck then it's assault. When being trained to move people, and I'm not suggesting Field was trained in the action, you are taught which parts of the body are control points - the back of the neck is one of them.

I suspect that if you removed the political point from the problem and only consisdered the security and legal points the action would seem reasonable.

It is but you really have to know what you're doing. You can disturb the nervous control to the heart and potentially kill someone if you just go grabbing at the back of the neck. He is clearly pinching her neck which is rather dangerous.
Neck restraint, in fact most restraint techniques are being phased out against non-aggressive people and I'm not sure there was justification for touching her at all in this circumstance.

Sheebo · Jun 21, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
You and I disagree about reasonable force. If you saw a woman being treated like that at football, you would be up in arms about it.

Peaceful protest includes heckling a speech (it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer) and she was a climate change protestor.

Peaceful protest also doesn’t involve trespassing. It depends what the woman at football had done. If she was a potential suicide bomber for example, I’d want her treated more thoroughly than that :lol:

man/woman doesn’t really matter these days - we live in an equal society and rightly so. It’s a very 1960s view to point to her gender - she was doing something I suspect is illegal - trespassing?

Sheebo · Jun 21, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The Prime Minister disagrees and has suspended him.

That makes no odds to my argument. The prime minister is also a bit shit from what I know :lol:

it’s split opinion on here / everywhere so don’t see the harm in offering mine.

Ernest · Jun 21, 2019

To have one Tory MP sacked today is bad but to probably have another one is likely to bring down this government

Deleted member 22389 · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
Shouting across a speech is causing trouble! I have absolutely no knowledge of what the event was or what the protest was - which I think helps in this instance as others are letting their political angle cloud their view imo. She was trespassing and got escorted out with reasonable force - I really don’t see the issue. She will hopefully learn from her mistake that she is not above the law.

I can't see what the fuss is about either.

The Clamp · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
Peaceful protest also doesn’t involve trespassing. It depends what the woman at football had done. If she was a potential suicide bomber for example, I’d want her treated more thoroughly than that man/woman doesn’t really matter these days - we live in an equal society and rightly so. It’s a very 1960s view to point to her gender - she was doing something I suspect is illegal - trespassing?

Trespass is not illegal.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 21, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
He isn't trained, and the woman had already lowered her head after bouncing back from the pillar. She made no attempt to raise her arms or to kick out. He could easily have taken both her arms to take her to security, but if you look at his face in the footage, he has lost his temper. She didn't even struggle.

Errrr ..... you can't control someone by taking both their arms - it leaves the situation open to them squiring free and doesn't control them. For starters you have to walk backwards to take them anywhere. Anyone that thinks 'security' would have taken a different action had they been there then they are fooling themselves.

Thunder Bolt said:
If you saw a woman being treated like that at football, you would be up in arms about it.

Her being a woman has nothing to do with it. She was treapassing and a man would, or at least should, have been treated in exactly the same manner.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
man/woman doesn’t really matter these days - we live in an equal society and rightly so. It’s a very 1960s view to point to her gender - she was doing something I suspect is illegal - trespassing?

What constitutes reasonable force, to detain somebody, depends on a variety of factors - chief amongst those is the physical size and strength of the person - so of course their gender is important.

Sheebo · Jun 21, 2019

The Clamp said:
Trespass is not illegal.

Ok - hence I said I suspect is illegal. Eiter way it’s not right especially when it’s known what you are doing.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 21, 2019

No - but it is still an offence.

Sheebo · Jun 21, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
What constitutes reasonable force, to detain somebody, depends on a variety of factors - chief amongst those is the physical size and strength of the person - so of course their gender is important.

Sizeist stereotyping.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 21, 2019

bashlsdir said:
I can't see what the fuss is about either.

There's a shock.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 21, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The Prime Minister disagrees and has suspended him.

This will be the most useless PM we've had in living memory - who is also currently a dead duck PM ? :facepalm:

Klaas · Jun 21, 2019

bashlsdir said:
I can't see what the fuss is about either.

You surprise me, you really do!

The Clamp · Jun 21, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Errrr ..... you can't control someone by taking both their arms - it leaves the situation open to them squiring free and doesn't control them. For starters you have to walk backwards to take them anywhere. Anyone that thinks 'security' would have taken a different action has they been there then they are fooling themselves.

Her being a woman has nothing to do with it. She was treapassing and a man would, or at least should, have been treated in exactly the same manner.

The longer video on the BBC news website shows you exactly how the security there did handle it. Surprisingly they weren't grabbing people by the neck but instead escorting them out by walking alongside them and guiding them onward by steering their elbows once in a while.
This is indeed how all security is headed. Get more security around the people to reduce the need for restraint and simply give them no other way to go but to move with security out of the building. Which is exactly what you see in the longer video.
No pushing, shoving or neck control. Just a simple line of protestors being swept along relatively calmly by a lot of security.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 21, 2019

sheebo said:
Sizeist stereotyping.

Don't be silly, now.

Pure statistical facts, suggest that a woman is LIKELY to be smaller / less physically strong than a man.

Either way - he can see who he is dealing with - and acted with above necessary aggression, simply because HE lost his temper in annoyance at having his posh-boys dinner interrupted - and absolutely nothing to do with any perceived level of threat.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 21, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
This will be the most useless PM we've had in living memory - who is also currently a dead duck PM ?

What's that got to do with it?

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[Politics] Mark Field

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Stupid IDIOT

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