[News] MMR, Vaccinate or not.

Uh_huh_him · Apr 25, 2019

beorhthelm said:
the original paper was always disputed, looking at a link between bowel disease and autism, and an inferred trigger from the MMR. it had no control group, wasnt reproduced or backed by other studies. groups of fearmongers latched on to it as evidence of causual link, and rather than correct them Wakefield revelled into the fame and built up the fear.

This!

If I remember correctly, his originally sample set showed a correlation between bowel disease, MMR and autism , and he wanted funding to explore the findings further.
He didn't get it, he got the hump and a lot of people thought the medical establishment were hushing him up.

This was about 2002-2003, when my boy was due to have the MMR.
I insisted that my son had the MMR jab. He was diagnosed with Autism several months later.
Due to guilt and the ongoing hysteria I was persuaded, by my then wife, that my Daughter would not have the MMR.
Or any other vaccines.
She is not autistic but does have ADHD.

The first few years after an autism diagnosis, there is a lot of looking around for a reason for it.
I'm sure on hearing about a link to MMR, a lot of parents of autistic children, would have latched onto it.
I definitely fell into that trap after my boy was diagnosed, but I know now that it was bollocks. My boy doesn't have bowel disease and showed signs of autism before the injection.

Wakefield was an egotistical **** that allowed people to get hysterical to help get his research some publicity.

Westdene Seagull · Apr 25, 2019

lost in london said:
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. What politics were the government playing? Their view has been completely vindicated.

I think you've misunderstood me - at the time there were two camps - the government saying it was safe and the 'alternative' view that it wasn't. Neither had been proven right or wrong at THAT time.

darkwolf666 · Apr 25, 2019

WilburySeagull said:
The alleged risk has comprehensively trashed by huge numbers of specialists in the field and needs to be challenged at every opportunity. Its the very definition of fake news. The large increases in measals cases is a very worrying fact. Many people do not realise just how dangerous it can be.

Unfortunately the idea is ingrained in some people’s minds, whatever “evidence” can be offered.

Scientists invented Thalidomide and look at the consequences of that - not everyone trusts scientists and they’re not always right.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 25, 2019

Leekbrookgull said:
You can go private and have one at a time or MMR,our had it and no issues. Too those that don't approve don't you have a moral position to safe guard the welfare of the general public and how would you react if your unvaccinated child picked up Measles ? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48039524

Those who don't vaccinate should be prosecuted for child abuse and endangering public health. That 'Dr' Andrew whatsit was struck off and is a fraud and charlatan. The MMR phenomenon is up there with Trump and Brexit as far as I'm concerned.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 25, 2019

Tom Hark said:
MMR is now inextricably linked with inducing autism. Proven to be false, probably, but there's patently huge numbers of parents out there not willing to take the risk.

Proven to be false.

I could bore you all night about the disgraceful 'Dr' and the appallingly shit peer review at the journal that published his bilge. A national disgrace. I may write a book about shit research. Oh, I already have!

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 25, 2019

vegster said:
We come from a time when vaccination was the norm as the diseases around then could be killers. In our day I think everyone was queuing up for ANY vaccination rather than face Polio, Measles, Scarlet Fever etc, they never truly all went away but thanks to vaccines they were marginalised to a huge degree.

Nowdays, an adverse reaction to a vaccine gets proportionately more coverage and scares people off and gets them questioning the reasons why we vaccinate in a negative way.

EDIT : Yes, of course I was vaccinated and so was my daughter.

And it wasn't an adverse reaction to a vaccine. Vaccines do not cause autism. This is a fact.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 25, 2019

Barham's tash said:
Measles in particular is a very nasty ****er. You need 95% population vaccination to have effective control of the disease.

I heard this morning on Radio 4 that we’re getting dangerously close to that number.

Now whilst the world could do with a good cull theres also a good reason vaccinations exist.

Don’t be an idiot. Get your kids vaccinated.

There is of course Dawrwin's law.....survival of the vaccinated. Bit hard on the kids, though. Stupidity isn't invariably inherited.

The Antikythera Mechanism · Apr 25, 2019

I had the BCG vaccine when I was 12. Do they still do this? A friend of mine, Nolan Plazek, died from tuberculosis when we were at Balfour Primary School in the 60’s.

One Love · Apr 25, 2019

Unfortunately this seems to be part of the complete mistrust of the establishment (which obviously includes the medical profession) that has brought us Brexit and Trump.

vegster · Apr 25, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
And it wasn't an adverse reaction to a vaccine. Vaccines do not cause autism. This is a fact.

I know that HWT, but in this day and age a lie can cross the World before the truth can get its boots on.

Uh_huh_him · Apr 25, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Those who don't vaccinate should be prosecuted for child abuse and endangering public health. That 'Dr' Andrew whatsit was struck off and is a fraud and charlatan. The MMR phenomenon is up there with Trump and Brexit as far as I'm concerned.

If I remember correctly this point of view is also fake news.
I believe there is a tipping point of percentage of the population at which vaccines become fully effective.
I think the percentage varies per disease, but is in the region of 80 -90%

Individuals choosing not to vaccinate do not effect the overall immunity. as long as it's a minority position.

knocky1 · Apr 25, 2019

The findings on problems from MMR vaccination are stronger than the Mueller report; idiot callers.

Barham's tash · Apr 25, 2019

Uh_huh_him said:
If I remember correctly this point of view is also fake news.
I believe there is a tipping point of percentage of the population at which vaccines become fully effective.
I think the percentage varies per disease, but is in the region of 80 -90%

Individuals choosing not to vaccinate do not effect the overall immunity. as long as it's a minority position.

See my post above. Eminent healthcare professional confirmed we’re close to that tipping point for measles specifically.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 25, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
Unfortunately the idea is ingrained in some people’s minds, whatever “evidence” can be offered.

Scientists invented Thalidomide and look at the consequences of that - not everyone trusts scientists and they’re not always right.

Thalidomide is still prescribed for treatment of cancer and some forms of leprosy. It is not given to pregnant women now for obvious reasons.

acrossthepond · Apr 25, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
I think you've misunderstood me - at the time there were two camps - the government saying it was safe and the 'alternative' view that it wasn't. Neither had been proven right or wrong at THAT time.

At the time, sort of, in the sense of "maybe a risk to individual kids of jabs".

Absolutely not in the sense of "overall benefit to the population of the planet of the vaccination."

Billy the Fish · Apr 25, 2019

I'm not sure why there's all the comparisons to fake news, social media etc. This was published in the Lancet so you can surely forgive people at the time for being a bit worried :shrug:

Uh_huh_him · Apr 25, 2019

acrossthepond said:
At the time, sort of, in the sense of "maybe a risk to individual kids of jabs".

Absolutely not in the sense of "overall benefit to the population of the planet of the vaccination."

The majority of the demand was to switch to single jabs rather than not be vaccinated at all.
So the politics were more budgetary in nature, rather than political point scoring.

acrossthepond · Apr 25, 2019

Uh_huh_him said:
The majority of the demand was to switch to single jabs rather than not be vaccinated at all.
So the politics were more budgetary in nature, rather than political point scoring.

I'm not talking politics, I'm talking kids dying

Thunder Bolt · Apr 25, 2019

Billy the Fish said:
I'm not sure why there's all the comparisons to fake news, social media etc. This was published in the Lancet so you can surely forgive people at the time for being a bit worried

Yes, at the time, but vaccinations have dropped in the last five years. Social media is playing a part in that by still spreading fake news.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 25, 2019

Uh_huh_him said:
If I remember correctly this point of view is also fake news.
I believe there is a tipping point of percentage of the population at which vaccines become fully effective.
I think the percentage varies per disease, but is in the region of 80 -90%

Individuals choosing not to vaccinate do not effect the overall immunity. as long as it's a minority position.

And that is the point. If you tell 100% of the people that only 90% need comply, fewer than 90% will. I wouldn't.

Where I work, if we are told we don't have to do something but it would be nice if we did, we don't. Far too many things to do that we absolutely have to do.

So, far from fake news. :shrug:

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[News] MMR, Vaccinate or not.

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