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[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?

VAR

  • Total voters
    444


Acker79

Acker79

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Nov 15, 2008
31,842
Brighton
warmleyseagull said:
And nowhere have I said I am supporter of VAR, TBH, I would have been content to carry on as was; what I am against is writing it off because Albion have been perceived as hard done by in one game, which is basically what this thread is about (can anyone look themselves in the mirror and say: "I would have posted just as strongly against VAR had Trossard's goal stood and Hernandez's goal been ruled offside due to VAR"?) I also believe in its inevitability because PL will not wish to be seen to be recidivist when other Leagues are adopting so we had better get used to it, like it or not.

I shall save this thread and dig it out in two years' time when we shall all wonder where the dinosaurs have gone.
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In fairness, I believe the plan is to have one of these threads each weekend, so there's an awareness among, I think a lot of us, that opinions are likely to change (if there ar echanges to approaches, if we get used to it, if we succeed, if we fail, and so on. At least there was discussion of that, to see how opinions change or don't over the course of the season. I think initially there was a thought to do one poll, but then it was pointed out once you've voted you can't change your vote.

Edit: Here's the post-watford one if you're interested: https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?374689-The-Periodic-VAR-Yes-No-Poll-Number-1 Hard to draw a proper conclusion froom two, especially when that one was yes/no, this is yes/fence/no.
 
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Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

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Jul 23, 2003
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warmleyseagull said:
The argument looked good until you mention internet banking. Do you think that is finished article? Hope not. Do people use it despite not being finished article? They do. I am not sure there is anything that is right first time, is there? To be clear, I think VAR is fit for purpose but it evidently needs modification and improvement. It needs testing in live environment; it is getting that; and it will improve to the point of general acceptance as it has done in Bundesliga and Serie A, not to mention international cricket and rugby. Meantime, stupidity and dysfunctionality occur, as per the links I posted previously in Germany and Italy when VAR first adopted there. That tends to be the way these things work.

And nowhere have I said I am supporter of VAR, TBH, I would have been content to carry on as was; what I am against is writing it off because Albion have been perceived as hard done by in one game, which is basically what this thread is about (can anyone look themselves in the mirror and say: "I would have posted just as strongly against VAR had Trossard's goal stood and Hernandez's goal been ruled offside due to VAR"?) I also believe in its inevitability because PL will not wish to be seen to be recidivist when other Leagues are adopting so we had better get used to it, like it or not.

I shall save this thread and dig it out in two years' time when we shall all wonder where the dinosaurs have gone.
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Acker79 said:
In fairness, I believe the plan is to have one of these threads each weekend, so there's an awareness among, I think a lot of us, that opinions are likely to change (if there ar echanges to approaches, if we get used to it, if we succeed, if we fail, and so on. At least there was discussion of that, to see how opinions change or don't over the course of the season. I think initially there was a thought to do one poll, but then it was pointed out once you've voted you can't change your vote.

Edit: Here's the post-watford one if you're interested: https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?374689-The-Periodic-VAR-Yes-No-Poll-Number-1 Hard to draw a proper conclusion froom two, especially when that one was yes/no, this is yes/fence/no.
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Exactly Acker. I was going to run one periodically because people do change their minds and you can only vote in one poll once. I will probably leave it a few weeks now as we've done the subject to death but I do believe it needs regularly reviewing and voting on by fans. If it gets to the point where it is only used for matter of fact decisions that are cut and dried but missed by the ref, and if those can be turned round quickly then there is no issue at all with VAR as far as I am concerned. It would be a decent extension of goal line tech, which I'm in favour of.

However, we are literally watching a horrible experiment at the moment and I'm 100% against that and would be if Palace had a winner chalked off against us because the SEGW's eyes were offside. That kind if nitpicking pedantry has no place in an artform.

Imagine if this goal had been reviewed.......

 


W

warmleyseagull

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2011
4,210
Beaminster, Dorset
Guinness Boy said:
Exactly Acker. I was going to run one periodically because people do change their minds and you can only vote in one poll once. I will probably leave it a few weeks now as we've done the subject to death but I do believe it needs regularly reviewing and voting on by fans.
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Good shout. Let's have one when VAR affects oppo adversely, and another after an unaffected game. There seems to be a high element of frustration in many posts on here.
 


B

Brovion

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Jul 6, 2003
19,356
mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
I'm sure all my issues are covered, but best to detail my rant in a series of bullet points.

- I hate it. HATE HATE HATE IT.
- The sheer unbridled JOY of a goal has had an element taken away from it. Even on Trossard's legit goal, I only HALF celebrated for fear of them finding SOMETHING wrong with it. The removal of that utter joy is an absolute crime against the sport. Awful.
- It is NOT the same as reviewing a try or a wicket or a point in tennis. Yes, these are important, but they are in NO WAY as VITAL is a goal is in football. Plenty of games are won 1-0 with last minute winners, the fact that the fans can't go MENTAL for fear of it being over-ruled is mad. Yes, it was funny, but see Man City's last minute winner ruled out for an example of how rubbish this is. Yes, it's 'drama' but it's taking away from every goal.
- The delay in finding out a goal is even being 'properly' reviewed is awful and it purely communicated. I have no issue with the goal being ruled out. Burn was offside. The delay is shocking. Why can't this be a review system where, within 5 seconds of a goal being scored, the manager/captain can ask for a review if they have a doubt? Then we know very early that there could possibly be a disallowed goal. The fact they are 'reviewing' every goal means constant worry that it won't stand.
- The Linespeople have become redundant. They have now been instructed to NOT flag for offside's until the phase of play is complete or whatever it is. It's ridiculous. The amount of standard offsides I've seen where play continues and continues and eventually the flag goes up. If I was a lino I wouldn't DARE put my flag up now for fear of being THE lino who stopped play when someone was actually onside.
- Who EXACTLY is it who are demanding the 'perfect' game where no mistakes are made. This game has grown and grown and is a religion in this country before this nonsense came in.
- Do NOT use goal line tech in the same conversation as VAR. Goal line tech is an instant decision and is a FACT. It is brilliant.


Done.
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100% agree. I've been away, and the last thing I saw at the airport before I switched my phone off was the BBC text going GOAL!. Brighton 1 West Ham 0. Later on once I'd got to my destination I checked the final score to find, disappointingly, that we hadn't been able to hold on and West Ham had equalised. Then after that I found out that the original goal had been ruled out and in fact it was US who'd equalised! (Apparently West Ham were getting ready to kick off when the decision came through. Was that true?)

I'm sorry but that is just bollocks. If VAR is here to stay then, well I'm pretty much done with football. THEY have finally won, The modern, expensive 'match day experience' in all-seater stadiums I've just about adjusted to after all these years, (onIy because we can still stand in defiance of the regulations), but VAR in its current format is a step too far. I'll leave the nerds and authoritarians to enjoy their victory.

I'll still say I'm a Brighton fan when anybody asks, I'll watch the results come in and feel happy or sad, but I'm not going to waste my money attending matches with the essential spontaneity suffocated out of the game. And yes, I'll probably recant, but it's nearly a week later and I wasn't even there and I'm STILL pissed off.


Just editing to add that I bet the West Ham fans cheered when the goal was ruled out. Is that what we've come to? Celebrating refereeing decisions like they're goals instead of just giving a bit of an ironic 'Ha! Ha!' cheer?

I'm out.
 
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B

Bodian

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May 3, 2012
11,790
Cumbria
Brovion said:
(Apparently West Ham were getting ready to kick off when the decision came through. Was that true?) .
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It was worse than that. All the player were back in position and waiting for the ref to blow to kick-off again before the review was even announced as happening. Not just the decision - no-one knew there was even any doubt. A second later and they would have kicked off.
 




B

Brovion

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Jul 6, 2003
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Bodian said:
It was worse than that. All the player were back in position and waiting for the ref to blow to kick-off again before the review was even announced as happening. Not just the decision - no-one knew there was even any doubt. A second later and they would have kicked off.
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Oh that is shocking. So they didn't even say VAR review during the 'celebration time'? If so that's even worse than I thought. How anybody can defend VAR is beyond me. Well unless you're a complete nerd who loves rules and hates the whole human experience then fair enough I guess.
 


B

Bodian

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Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
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Spurs and Man City both had VAR ‘Umpires Decision’ penalty shouts upheld. Both were nailed on as far as I was concerned (others, like Shearer will disagree). I’m getting confused about what VAR can and can’t do. It’s just shit and has totally changed the game.
 




trueblue

trueblue

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Jul 5, 2003
10,376
Hove
I think our view is seriously skewed at the moment as we have had two goals disallowed. It would have been even worse had Locadia stuck his chance in the net, as that was another one that would have bit the dust. We are suffering more because we rarely score from open play. Those goals are a lot less likely to be subject to a VAR delay. They’ll be checked and confirmed while we’re still celebrating.

It does make me wonder whether VAR is going to massively reduce the effectiveness of set pieces, which is a huge disadvantage to us.
 


M

Mayonaise

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May 25, 2014
2,114
Haywards Heath
The part of VAR that really irked me was that it just comes 'No Goal'. When have a goal chalked off three minutes after you think you've scored, at least have the decency to why!

We need to why it was disallowed otherwise you just feel cheated and frustrated - horrible system.
 


GT49er

GT49er

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Feb 1, 2009
46,700
Gloucester
Hugo Rune said:
Spurs and Man City both had VAR ‘Umpires Decision’ penalty shouts upheld. Both were nailed on as far as I was concerned (others, like Shearer will disagree). I’m getting confused about what VAR can and can’t do. It’s just shit and has totally changed the game.
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They have adopted a 'High Bar' (in other words the equivalent of Umpire's call) for penalty decisions. I'm in favour of that - though they should be awarding penalties for wrestling to the ground that the ref doesn't spot because he's looking somewhere else.
It should be the same for offside - if at first view in real time it looks close, go with 'High Bar' - support the ref's decision. Only if something has blatantly been missed look at it again - this extensive looking at every goal, over and over, in slow motion and from every conceivable angle to see if there's any possible reason to overturn the goal is just wrong. It is - and will - ruin the game.
 




southstandandy

southstandandy

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Jul 9, 2003
5,637
Mayonaise said:
The part of VAR that really irked me was that it just comes 'No Goal'. When have a goal chalked off three minutes after you think you've scored, at least have the decency to why!

We need to why it was disallowed otherwise you just feel cheated and frustrated - horrible system.
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As one of the callers to the phone in on Saturday said to the presenter, when he didn't know why Dunky's goal was disallowed he phoned his son in New York who was watching a stream of the game. He advised him it was due to Burn's offside. What we therefore need is a contact we can all call in New York during the game. Simples.
 
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pb21

pb21

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Apr 23, 2010
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trueblue said:
I think our view is seriously skewed at the moment as we have had two goals disallowed. It would have been even worse had Locadia stuck his chance in the net, as that was another one that would have bit the dust. We are suffering more because we rarely score from open play. Those goals are a lot less likely to be subject to a VAR delay. They’ll be checked and confirmed while we’re still celebrating.

It does make me wonder whether VAR is going to massively reduce the effectiveness of set pieces, which is a huge disadvantage to us.
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I think both disallowed goals wouldn't have stood VAR or not.

Last season they would have been disallowed straightway as they were obviously offside and/or a foul.

It should be the same with VAR.

Dunk scores, 2/3 second celebration, ref says no goal, VAR checks, VAR confirms.
 




B

Bodian

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May 3, 2012
11,790
Cumbria
pb21 said:
I think both disallowed goals wouldn't have stood VAR or not.

Last season they would have been disallowed straightway as they were obviously offside and/or a foul.

It should be the same with VAR.

Dunk scores, 2/3 second celebration, ref says no goal, VAR checks, VAR confirms.
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You're right. It's just that they're abdicating the decisions to the VAR team. If both our disallowed goals had been disallowed immediately, we'd have forgotten about them already. Indeed, Trossards goal may well not have been scored in the first place if the lino had flagged Burn offside as soon as he got near the ball.
 






Seasider78

Seasider78

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Nov 14, 2004
5,937
Bodian said:
You're right. It's just that they're abdicating the decisions to the VAR team. If both our disallowed goals had been disallowed immediately, we'd have forgotten about them already. Indeed, Trossards goal may well not have been scored in the first place if the lino had flagged Burn offside as soon as he got near the ball.
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This is what I don’t understand, the rules are the referee and linesman should make their decision as if VAR was not there and the technology only comes into play if they have missed something or the referee wants to check. The two decisions in our games should have been spotted and ruled out by the officials immediately. Burn was from a set piece that the linesman is level with and saturdays Burn was about 7 yards offside.

So if the officials are missing these then it is either them not applying the VAR rules correctly or they are incompetent and should be removed from refereeing top flight football for a few games
 


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